Antonio Love in - I don't get it.

[eskimo joe]

Can I just add summit.

If "numbers" is" who I think he is" then in my humble he has been doing "said like" for a long time now with same "results".

Have to put my hand on my heart and say dont know if HES A GENUINE West Ham fan but he certainly has "a vested interest in West Ham websites"!!

Whether its "personal gain" in some way I know not (or am not really interested to be honest).

What I will say is despite a lot of poo in there there is a "reasonable amount" of" actual fact".

Not going to "big him up" or "decry our fans opinion" BUT if you were to look back at a lot (not all) of the posts "re Antonio" in the closing quarter of the season I would estimate that 75%/80% of post regarding Antonio DID NOT want to see him playing RB!!

When you factor into "the equasion" the fact he couldnt get a game at the start of the season (for reasons unknown) and the fact NOBODY (including I feel Slav) KNOWS WHAT HIS BEST POSITION is then I think "debate" is still warrented.

Hes got "attributes" no doubt.

But I think to question his overall abilities is certainly for discussion.

I think you might to a be misrepresenting the facts , The issue was never the position Antonio was played in, cause we all know, as you have pointed out, that RB isn't his best one. And I think Bilic deep down knows this too but for what ever reason decided to persevere. The debate was about him being shyte.

I don't wonder why it took the time it did for him to get a start. Bilic had stated pre season that Antonio was doing well in training but wasn't totally ready for the step up.( not his exact words, but the meaning.)

Well he got his chance and grabbed it with both hands, even to narrowly miss out on HOTY.

Footballers have many different attributes accredited to them, not all have the technical abilities of Ronaldo, not all have the defensive mind of a Bonds. But one attribute you can't accredite to Antonio, is being Shyte and not worthy of a place in the prem.

[palerider]

However much Slaven's attributes have been pointed out, and there are many, the obsession with playing Antonio at right-back will not go away. It's almost as noticeable as the slug's obsession with Norun. And it's why we won't buy another right-back. The argument as to whether or not we need one is, to me, irrelevant.

But I'm not paid thousands a week to make that call. Maybe Bilic is a genius in recognising that given the right balance to the side, it could be his best position. If, as seems likely, we sign either Ritchie or Tore, then you'd think they'd be first choices on the wing.

Antonio is a fantastic prospect but still not the finished article. But given time he could be.

[eskimo joe]

However much Slaven's attributes have been pointed out, and there are many, the obsession with playing Antonio at right-back will not go away. It's almost as noticeable as the slug's obsession with Norun. And it's why we won't buy another right-back. The argument as to whether or not we need one is, to me, irrelevant.

But I'm not paid thousands a week to make that call. Maybe Bilic is a genius in recognising that given the right balance to the side, it could be his best position. If, as seems likely, we sign either Ritchie or Tore, then you'd think they'd be first choices on the wing.

Antonio is a fantastic prospect but still not the finished article. But given time he could be.

Agree, that has been a craw in my throat for a while, for all the good Bilic has done it gets marred by his stubborn use of Antonio at RB.
Can't use learning as an excuse cause we have as much experience regarding Antonio and we all see it.

I fear now, because of that something that never occurred to me until you, Pale, pointed it out, and if we do get those players, Antonio will be moving on. Even he himself must hate playing in the position he has been of late, And as you said, he will be second fiddle for the wing.

I sometimes think that it would have almost been better to keep Antonio in his preferred position and used Byram when he could. Why do what appears to be grooming, why groom
a RMF to be a RB when you got a RB and one who himself is in need of it.

[1234]

I hope certain West Ham fans are not becoming precious like Tottenham Hotspur fans and see things for what they are and not through rose tinted spectacles.

The point of persevering with Antonio at RB was to see if he was good enough to play there next season...as Bilic ideas next season that do not include Antonio on the wing.

As I stated, he got away with the surprise factor last season but next season, now his 'style' is well known, he will be very ineffective.

He will not be as effective next season and will soon be dropped. That is my opinion and people may not like it but I say it as I see it.

[Gonzo]

However much Slaven's attributes have been pointed out, and there are many, the obsession with playing Antonio at right-back will not go away. It's almost as noticeable as the slug's obsession with Norun. And it's why we won't buy another right-back. The argument as to whether or not we need one is, to me, irrelevant.

But I'm not paid thousands a week to make that call. Maybe Bilic is a genius in recognising that given the right balance to the side, it could be his best position. If, as seems likely, we sign either Ritchie or Tore, then you'd think they'd be first choices on the wing.

Antonio is a fantastic prospect but still not the finished article. But given time he could be.

Agree, that has been a craw in my throat for a while, for all the good Bilic has done it gets marred by his stubborn use of Antonio at RB.
Can't use learning as an excuse cause we have as much experience regarding Antonio and we all see it.

I fear now, because of that something that never occurred to me until you, Pale, pointed it out, and if we do get those players, Antonio will be moving on. Even he himself must hate playing in the position he has been of late, And as you said, he will be second fiddle for the wing.

I sometimes think that it would have almost been better to keep Antonio in his preferred position and used Byram when he could. Why do what appears to be grooming, why groom
a RMF to be a RB when you got a RB and one who himself is in need of it.

I think him playing at RB was more to do with Byram not being the finished article and Tomkins being limited going forward. I did not agree with him at RB and would have persisted with Tomkins but I don't believe that he'll repeat the error.

[Mikeveep]

As usual,there is a grain of truth in Numbers' rants.

It's unfortunate that he chooses to only concentrate on possible negatives which is bound to clash with the usual fans who are reluctant to consider that their favourites may have failings.

An alternative take on his season is .. Shouldnt 8 goals and 3 assists from mainly defensive positions be proclaimed from the rooftops? Probably best in the league considering he wasnt picked for a third of the season.

Slaven apparently likes a Wing Back and Antonio is the best we have. Is he better when played further forward? Possibly...it's not cut and dried. There is an argument that he is particularly effective when running from deep, and perhaps not so capable when asked to interpass in a more congested area.

We have his attacking statistics...crucially, do we know,or have a feeling about how many conceded goals or scoring opportunities can be attributed to him ?

[palerider]

As usual,there is a grain of truth in Numbers' rants.

It's unfortunate that he chooses to only concentrate on possible negatives which is bound to clash with the usual fans who are reluctant to consider that their favourites may have failings.

An alternative take on his season is .. Shouldnt 8 goals and 3 assists from mainly defensive positions be proclaimed from the rooftops? Probably best in the league considering he wasnt picked for a third of the season.

Slaven apparently likes a Wing Back and Antonio is the best we have. Is he better when played further forward? Possibly...it's not cut and dried. There is an argument that he is particularly effective when running from deep, and perhaps not so capable when asked to interpass in a more congested area.

We have his attacking statistics...crucially, do we know,or have a feeling about how many conceded goals or scoring opportunities can be attributed to him ?

As I hardly ever go to games i can only rely on what I see on tv. He conceded a penalty at Chelsea. Outside the box but still a foul. He was partly at fault for 3 of Swansea's goals. In the game I did attend, he was out of position for the free-kick that led to Watford's goal. But he was brought down in the box for our 2nd penalty.

That's what you get from wing-backs. Very few are excellent doing both jobs and in this position he's a work in progress. Bilic sees what he brings to the team more than what he doesn't. And I suppose that after 4 years of drudgery it's a plus point, not a minus.

[eskimo joe]

Agree, that has been a craw in my throat for a while, for all the good Bilic has done it gets marred by his stubborn use of Antonio at RB.
Can't use learning as an excuse cause we have as much experience regarding Antonio and we all see it.

I fear now, because of that something that never occurred to me until you, Pale, pointed it out, and if we do get those players, Antonio will be moving on. Even he himself must hate playing in the position he has been of late, And as you said, he will be second fiddle for the wing.

I sometimes think that it would have almost been better to keep Antonio in his preferred position and used Byram when he could. Why do what appears to be grooming, why groom
a RMF to be a RB when you got a RB and one who himself is in need of it.

I think him playing at RB was more to do with Byram not being the finished article and Tomkins being limited going forward. I did not agree with him at RB and would have persisted with Tomkins but I don't believe that he'll repeat the error.

That was partly my point Gonzo, You got a player, ok not the finished article, but a RB . You got Antonio who in all intents and purposes is hardly the finished article in terms of being a RB. So i would have bit the bullet and opted for Byram, or your other option Tomkins, hes had far more experience there than Antonio.( you could almost say similar for Byram in terms of being a RB.

So to persist in putting Antonio at RB ,to me seems like hes being groomed to be a stand in for both Byram and the winger or RMF we bring in. Obviously its just conjecture but i cant see Bilic being so stubborn for any other reason.

[Gonzo]

I think him playing at RB was more to do with Byram not being the finished article and Tomkins being limited going forward. I did not agree with him at RB and would have persisted with Tomkins but I don't believe that he'll repeat the error.

That was partly my point Gonzo, You got a player, ok not the finished article, but a RB . You got Antonio who in all intents and purposes is hardly the finished article in terms of being a RB. So i would have bit the bullet and opted for Byram, or your other option Tomkins, hes had far more experience there than Antonio.( you could almost say similar for Byram in terms of being a RB.

So to persist in putting Antonio at RB ,to me seems like hes being groomed to be a stand in for both Byram and the winger or RMF we bring in. Obviously its just conjecture but i cant see Bilic being so stubborn for any other reason.

You might well be right Jon, hopefully he will see the error in the selection and realise like everyone else that Antonio is an attacker and not a defender

[Gonzo]

As usual,there is a grain of truth in Numbers' rants.

It's unfortunate that he chooses to only concentrate on possible negatives which is bound to clash with the usual fans who are reluctant to consider that their favourites may have failings.

An alternative take on his season is .. Shouldnt 8 goals and 3 assists from mainly defensive positions be proclaimed from the rooftops? Probably best in the league considering he wasnt picked for a third of the season.

Slaven apparently likes a Wing Back and Antonio is the best we have. Is he better when played further forward? Possibly...it's not cut and dried. There is an argument that he is particularly effective when running from deep, and perhaps not so capable when asked to interpass in a more congested area.

We have his attacking statistics...crucially, do we know,or have a feeling about how many conceded goals or scoring opportunities can be attributed to him ?

That's a cracking post Mike.

Not my original opinion to be fair but I can totally understand what you are saying.