Deal...

[BCHammer]

It's been Decided there will be another UK Referendum in 2022..............

Maybe y'all will be out of lockdown for a social distanced ballot casting by then

[Gandalf]

As a Brit living in mainland Europe I guess it should come as no surprise to you that I was very much in the Remain camp. But I know many of you here were Leavers.
So to you Leavers, how do you feel about this deal on first impressions? Happy with it? Or not? What do you feel you've gained? And what have you lost?

Yeah was very much in favour of leaving G....Big Believer in "Free Trade" being exactly what it says on the tin...FREE TRADE...
You Can't be tied or limited..
Don't reckon the EU has benefited anyone..the Richer Countries are just as Rich and the Poorer ones just as Poor,
But thats the way it Works...the wealthy need the not so wealthy...locally or worldwide at any level.

Think all Separate Countries Should have Control of their own Borders...Each has it's own requirements and needs.
Ours is different to Germanys...they have infrastructure space and capabilities for more...whereas our Cities are getting
very near to full up.
A one size fits all just doesn't work...T Shirts to Economics...

Just said in Mr Ns post...that hopefully all the stuff we've been thru last few years,will have helped in making an easier
transition,instead of doing it all after we had left.
So yeah me personally am pretty happy it's done and we can trade freely and have slightly more control of things.
But in saying that if I was an Expat might have a different view and angle on it...we have to do whats best for us
as individual families....so totally get the remain thing...anyones remain vote come to that...what don't like is
people refusing to accept it...
Wouldn't surprise me in the Slightest if Labour suggest putting a fresh referendum in their next Manifesto,do
anything for political gain if it might win a few votes.....already see their new slogan....A New Leadership.....

There are a few issues in your comments that in time I may address. But for now I will mention just one. And I will start at the end:

Quote: "Wouldn't surprise me in the Slightest if Labour suggest putting a fresh referendum in their next Manifesto,do anything for political gain if it might win a few votes".

You're wording that as if it is some kind of underhand tactic that would be employed solely by the Labour Party.

May I remind you that when Boris Johnson was in the hunt for the job of Prime Minister he took an absolute age to decide whether he was on the Leavers side or on the Remainers side.
And when he did eventually make his decision he jumped in with both feet and started promoting the Leave campaign as if it was the best thing since sliced bread and a clear-cut case. Funny that, considering this stance was completely at odds with the things he was saying before he was going for the top job.
So why did it take him so long to decide? For the very simple reason that he was gauging the situation and wanted to be sure which approach would give him the best chance of becoming Prime Minister. He guessed right and landed his dream job with it.

So maybe you shouldn't go suggesting that the Labour Party will be trying some underhand tactics to win votes. If public opinion is stating "This is what we want" and a political party shifts its policies accordingly, that's a good thing, isn't it? After all, they are there to serve the people. And they need votes to do that.

Shifting party policies to gain votes is one thing. But shifting personal policies for personal gain? A Politian should never do that. But that is exactly what Johnson did!

[mkhammer]

Yeah was very much in favour of leaving G....Big Believer in "Free Trade" being exactly what it says on the tin...FREE TRADE...
You Can't be tied or limited..
Don't reckon the EU has benefited anyone..the Richer Countries are just as Rich and the Poorer ones just as Poor,
But thats the way it Works...the wealthy need the not so wealthy...locally or worldwide at any level.

Think all Separate Countries Should have Control of their own Borders...Each has it's own requirements and needs.
Ours is different to Germanys...they have infrastructure space and capabilities for more...whereas our Cities are getting
very near to full up.
A one size fits all just doesn't work...T Shirts to Economics...

Just said in Mr Ns post...that hopefully all the stuff we've been thru last few years,will have helped in making an easier
transition,instead of doing it all after we had left.
So yeah me personally am pretty happy it's done and we can trade freely and have slightly more control of things.
But in saying that if I was an Expat might have a different view and angle on it...we have to do whats best for us
as individual families....so totally get the remain thing...anyones remain vote come to that...what don't like is
people refusing to accept it...
Wouldn't surprise me in the Slightest if Labour suggest putting a fresh referendum in their next Manifesto,do
anything for political gain if it might win a few votes.....already see their new slogan....A New Leadership.....

There are a few issues in your comments that in time I may address. But for now I will mention just one. And I will start at the end:

Quote: "Wouldn't surprise me in the Slightest if Labour suggest putting a fresh referendum in their next Manifesto,do anything for political gain if it might win a few votes".

You're wording that as if it is some kind of underhand tactic that would be employed solely by the Labour Party.

May I remind you that when Boris Johnson was in the hunt for the job of Prime Minister he took an absolute age to decide whether he was on the Leavers side or on the Remainers side.
And when he did eventually make his decision he jumped in with both feet and started promoting the Leave campaign as if it was the best thing since sliced bread and a clear-cut case. Funny that, considering this stance was completely at odds with the things he was saying before he was going for the top job.
So why did it take him so long to decide? For the very simple reason that he was gauging the situation and wanted to be sure which approach would give him the best chance of becoming Prime Minister. He guessed right and landed his dream job with it.

So maybe you shouldn't go suggesting that the Labour Party will be trying some underhand tactics to win votes. If public opinion is stating "This is what we want" and a political party shifts its policies accordingly, that's a good thing, isn't it? After all, they are there to serve the people. And they need votes to do that.

Shifting party policies to gain votes is one thing. But shifting personal policies for personal gain? A Politian should never do that. But that is exactly what Johnson did!

I've prob followed a similar path in his views...lots of quotes from him on the EU stuff is 20 years ago...
"being a fan of the single market" ...etc.....times and circumstances change tho...
My own personal view has changed in that time...if you stick with one opinion thru out,you don't evolve and learn.
Was a Young Liberal when a kid...wouldn't go near them with a barge pole now..They've changed, Middle road to a bunch
of vote winning sitting on the far left of politics lot.

I kinda wanted out..but more from a nationalistic point of view,maybe not best for the country at time..now
I feel it's best,well pretty certain it is...I've changed slightly.

What we all want,and we are liars if we say no, is to have our cake and eat it,He wants/wanted to stay in the single market
with all those benefits..but not have interference from outside in decision making..and have the benefits of a free
market economy as well.Thats what he was pushing for,you push as far as you can...squeeze it,then compromise.

You'll notice the Tories(MPs) will argue discuss,and be prepared to vote against things if they feel strong enough..
Labour will vote practically en masse..behind their leader.....CORBYN FFS they all backed him...all of em...
just to put pressure on Tories,even going against their own judgements and opinions....which party is morally the better....

Ask yourself.........All off a sudden ...a new Logo ..."A New Leadership"...and thats not political gain from all the shit
we're going thru.....they will not, never have put Politics to one side,for the benefit of the Country..

[Gandalf]

There are a few issues in your comments that in time I may address. But for now I will mention just one. And I will start at the end:

Quote: "Wouldn't surprise me in the Slightest if Labour suggest putting a fresh referendum in their next Manifesto,do anything for political gain if it might win a few votes".

You're wording that as if it is some kind of underhand tactic that would be employed solely by the Labour Party.

May I remind you that when Boris Johnson was in the hunt for the job of Prime Minister he took an absolute age to decide whether he was on the Leavers side or on the Remainers side.
And when he did eventually make his decision he jumped in with both feet and started promoting the Leave campaign as if it was the best thing since sliced bread and a clear-cut case. Funny that, considering this stance was completely at odds with the things he was saying before he was going for the top job.
So why did it take him so long to decide? For the very simple reason that he was gauging the situation and wanted to be sure which approach would give him the best chance of becoming Prime Minister. He guessed right and landed his dream job with it.

So maybe you shouldn't go suggesting that the Labour Party will be trying some underhand tactics to win votes. If public opinion is stating "This is what we want" and a political party shifts its policies accordingly, that's a good thing, isn't it? After all, they are there to serve the people. And they need votes to do that.

Shifting party policies to gain votes is one thing. But shifting personal policies for personal gain? A Politian should never do that. But that is exactly what Johnson did!

I've prob followed a similar path in his views...lots of quotes from him on the EU stuff is 20 years ago...
"being a fan of the single market" ...etc.....times and circumstances change tho...
My own personal view has changed in that time...if you stick with one opinion thru out,you don't evolve and learn.
Was a Young Liberal when a kid...wouldn't go near them with a barge pole now..They've changed, Middle road to a bunch
of vote winning sitting on the far left of politics lot.

I kinda wanted out..but more from a nationalistic point of view,maybe not best for the country at time..now
I feel it's best,well pretty certain it is...I've changed slightly.

What we all want,and we are liars if we say no, is to have our cake and eat it,He wants/wanted to stay in the single market
with all those benefits..but not have interference from outside in decision making..and have the benefits of a free
market economy as well.Thats what he was pushing for,you push as far as you can...squeeze it,then compromise.

You'll notice the Tories(MPs) will argue discuss,and be prepared to vote against things if they feel strong enough..
Labour will vote practically en masse..behind their leader.....CORBYN FFS they all backed him...all of em...
just to put pressure on Tories,even going against their own judgements and opinions....which party is morally the better....

Ask yourself.........All off a sudden ...a new Logo ..."A New Leadership"...and thats not political gain from all the shit
we're going thru.....they will not, never have put Politics to one side,for the benefit of the Country..

I guess first of all I should make my own political view point clear here just so you know where I'm coming from.
Basically my political view point is - I don't have one! I don't follow a particular party and I will always try to take an objective view at all times.
All of my family are right wing supporters. Most of my friends are left wing supporters. I'm in the middle, which can leave me in uncomfortable positions sometimes. But it also gives me a much more balanced view of politics, something which I feel neither my family, nor my friends have.
And from this neutral perspective what I see is, each side has a largely blinkered view of the other. Left wing supporters seem to think all right wing supporters are self-serving, tax-dodging, hand-in-the-till, snobs. Whereas right wing supporters see left wing supporters as work-shy, shower-dodging, drug-addicted scroungers.
And the fact that there are examples of both of those things, each side uses those examples to justify their own opinions to themselves.
But the truth is, most people, on both sides of the political divide are good, hard-working people.


Back to your point: You suggest many of the pro-EU quotes attributed to Johnson are 20 years old. Possibly some are. Of course it is possible to change your mind when faced with different circumstances. But exactly when did he change his mind? He came out as pro-Leave at the end of 2015. Yet he was still singing the praises of the EU as late as 2013.
That's a lot less than 20 years!

But let's give him the benefit of the doubt here. Let's say he changed his mind at some point in that two years because circumstances changed in those years. It could happen. You did it yourself. I don't know over what timeframe but as you said, you did change your way of thinking.
So Johnson changed his mind; you changed your mind; but then when large sections of voters were letting it be known that they had changed their minds (again, due to being faced with different circumstances) they were roundly ridiculed and told "Leave-Means-Leave" and "You lost. Get over it!". To my mind there is a certain level of hypocrisy there. We kept hearing the comment "It's the will of the people". But if Brexit really was the will of the people then a second referendum would have yielded the same result.

So if, hypothetically, Labour did include a second referendum in its next manifesto how would those who won first time around handle defeat if they lost second time around? Accept defeat graciously? Or bang on about it for the next few years highlighting all the opportunities that had been lost?

[mkhammer]

I've prob followed a similar path in his views...lots of quotes from him on the EU stuff is 20 years ago...
"being a fan of the single market" ...etc.....times and circumstances change tho...
My own personal view has changed in that time...if you stick with one opinion thru out,you don't evolve and learn.
Was a Young Liberal when a kid...wouldn't go near them with a barge pole now..They've changed, Middle road to a bunch
of vote winning sitting on the far left of politics lot.

I kinda wanted out..but more from a nationalistic point of view,maybe not best for the country at time..now
I feel it's best,well pretty certain it is...I've changed slightly.

What we all want,and we are liars if we say no, is to have our cake and eat it,He wants/wanted to stay in the single market
with all those benefits..but not have interference from outside in decision making..and have the benefits of a free
market economy as well.Thats what he was pushing for,you push as far as you can...squeeze it,then compromise.

You'll notice the Tories(MPs) will argue discuss,and be prepared to vote against things if they feel strong enough..
Labour will vote practically en masse..behind their leader.....CORBYN FFS they all backed him...all of em...
just to put pressure on Tories,even going against their own judgements and opinions....which party is morally the better....

Ask yourself.........All off a sudden ...a new Logo ..."A New Leadership"...and thats not political gain from all the shit
we're going thru.....they will not, never have put Politics to one side,for the benefit of the Country..

I guess first of all I should make my own political view point clear here just so you know where I'm coming from.
Basically my political view point is - I don't have one! I don't follow a particular party and I will always try to take an objective view at all times.
All of my family are right wing supporters. Most of my friends are left wing supporters. I'm in the middle, which can leave me in uncomfortable positions sometimes. But it also gives me a much more balanced view of politics, something which I feel neither my family, nor my friends have.
And from this neutral perspective what I see is, each side has a largely blinkered view of the other. Left wing supporters seem to think all right wing supporters are self-serving, tax-dodging, hand-in-the-till, snobs. Whereas right wing supporters see left wing supporters as work-shy, shower-dodging, drug-addicted scroungers.
And the fact that there are examples of both of those things, each side uses those examples to justify their own opinions to themselves.
But the truth is, most people, on both sides of the political divide are good, hard-working people.


Back to your point: You suggest many of the pro-EU quotes attributed to Johnson are 20 years old. Possibly some are. Of course it is possible to change your mind when faced with different circumstances. But exactly when did he change his mind? He came out as pro-Leave at the end of 2015. Yet he was still singing the praises of the EU as late as 2013.
That's a lot less than 20 years!

But let's give him the benefit of the doubt here. Let's say he changed his mind at some point in that two years because circumstances changed in those years. It could happen. You did it yourself. I don't know over what timeframe but as you said, you did change your way of thinking.
So Johnson changed his mind; you changed your mind; but then when large sections of voters were letting it be known that they had changed their minds (again, due to being faced with different circumstances) they were roundly ridiculed and told "Leave-Means-Leave" and "You lost. Get over it!". To my mind there is a certain level of hypocrisy there. We kept hearing the comment "It's the will of the people". But if Brexit really was the will of the people then a second referendum would have yielded the same result.

So if, hypothetically, Labour did include a second referendum in its next manifesto how would those who won first time around handle defeat if they lost second time around? Accept defeat graciously? Or bang on about it for the next few years highlighting all the opportunities that had been lost?

Good post mate...

Yeah, what you say in the first part was reason why I was a Young Lib, School and just after for a while...Big Time really into it.
Seemed just Logical to me...basically meet in the middle ground of compromise......extreme politics either side,gets you
absolutely no where,just breeds hate from the other side.
Was a Kid when Thatcher came to power..F.in Hated her,cos believed all the hype..only for the rich etc..so assumed she
was one of the extremists in politics....and for first year or so things seemed like utter crap in the UK...but they had been for a
while...But Slowly Slowly,started to understand a bit more....Finances,How to generate money,how and where to spend
it..see the long term bigger picture,run the country like you would run your home finances,or your Business,don't be
scared of borrowing,and using foreign investors....dont wanna bang on to much,but I understood her...
The clincher for me was that all the people that the real hard line lefties hated.."old school tie Etonian rich bods"
Hated her as well....she was just a shop keepers daughter that worked her way up via a grammer school.
So thats how became a Tory Bod.

My Granddad who loved dearly and helped bring me up...Was a Communist Naval Officer...now thats a mish mash....

Brexit thing ...wouldn't say had a change of mind..more a time for change...served it's purpose,now lets move on.
Theres so much stuff going on now Worldwide...China,India.Sth America....Africa in a few years..have huge expanding
markets,we just dont want or need limitations on what is possible..
Also wouldn't it be of help and benefit to have a European country as "Gateway" to other markets,all gets a bit
technical and above my pay grade,but see long term benefits for rest of europe as well.

Was the Labour voters Strongholds up North/Midlands got Brexit thru..putting something in manifesto was
exaggerating a bit...hope so anyway...cos you're right they do I'd be F.in Livid....

We're not leaving Europe..no intention of that...apart from the fact we cant... just that Financially/Politically it's
Stagnant...
Again I do get your Circumstances are different to mine.....not saying I'd be a remainer,but would def see things differently.

[Gandalf]

[BillyDWhizz]

It's such a good deal that even our esteemed Prime Minister's father is applying for French citizenship!

[terrya1965]

It's such a good deal that even our esteemed Prime Minister's father is applying for French citizenship!

Most MP's are.

You have to ask yourself why Billy?

Well,we all know.

[Dwayne Pipes]

He’s mother’s French ,family out there thinks he’s European
Fuck off silly old cunt.

[BlackDiamond]

It's such a good deal that even our esteemed Prime Minister's father is applying for French citizenship!

Indeed, Boris celebrates "the freedom in our hands" and his Dad washes his hands...