The Better fan argument

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Rumford
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The Better fan argument

Post by Rumford » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:04 am

Just wanted to take this away from the chat about the New Supporters Movement...seemed very unfair on Bubbs and Phil to have their thread hi-jacked with something i bought in to it.

It seems (yet again) that this old argument has rose up because i said about the "people that actually do the miles" and "rank and file" usually don't back these groups because many see it including me, as just geeks making themselves busy on the internet. Obviously on a WHU fans forum that view is hardly going to be universally agreed with.

Then , as always happens, you get people reeling off their credentials why their voice should be heard and what they have done in the past etc.

Now I have no problem with none of this, as i have said peoples priorities change and anyone can do whatever they want with their life and their hard earned cash BUT isn't this rather hypercritical 99 times out of 100 the people that are the rank and file have not said anything about the games they go to it ?

You can't have it both ways in my eyes...

I've been accused of acting the "better fan" yet have never put what games i attend past of present, ever.

I honestly believe that this argument is instigated by people that don't go, for whatever reason, and use the forums as their fix on something they miss and get the hump when someone turns up and says "the fans that actually go week and week out deserve their say too".

Something which is not happening at the moment IMHO.

Like it or lump it...the social media brigade have had many meetings with board members at our club. Virtually every single person involved was unknown to the actual fan in his seat. Chuck in that they have been very unsuccessful in either getting anything out of the board or building a resistance that would make the people that own/run our club think that they have to listen to them as they have the backing of the fans that go through the turnstiles every match.

WHUISA slag the SAB, the fans slag WHUISA and the SAB, everybody slags the RWH chaps...even though they were the only ones who have ever been able to muster anything close to anything.

To be honest...I don't have time for any of them. I don't think im the only one.

That is where im trying to come from....
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redhammer
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by redhammer » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:25 am

My reply to Paul in the other chat was more advice, that if they wish to appeal to every fan, which they need too, then unfortunately they need to be politically correct (not actual politics but West Ham/fan politics) and felt his comment could have aggrieved a few.

To your topic, I find the argument on twitter more than anywhere, tbh I don’t feel it on this forum despite what Newmarket said yesterday. I couldn’t care who does 1 game and who does 100, really makes no difference to me and I’ve never once heard or read and opinion from someone and thought ‘well how many games do you attend?’ Before deciding if I respect that or not, I just respect it, regardless.

My gripe, back to twitter, is people judging other fans actions. The two main examples after Huddersfield was someone having a dig at fans for leaving early ..... then I seen he doesn’t go to games himself. I honestly couldn’t believe the cheek of the cunt. I am a believer in if you pay your money then you do what you want. I’ve only left early once, last season at home to Brighton. But people around me leave early every game and it happened at Upton Park too.

The second was someone having a shot at fans for ‘celebrating at full time like we won the cup’.... oh fuck off. Let people celebrate as much as they want.

As for your post Romford, it doesn’t bother me in slightest if you mention you go to games etc etc. I know you do and I’ve always said ‘fair play to those who go to majority of home and aways’ but as said, don’t have an issue with those who don’t. Maybe it’s because I don’t, I dunno. Just never seen the big deal about it.

As for meetings etc, well, I fit into that social media brigade I guess but am not going to apologise for working hard on Hammers Chat and when the club email and ask myself and Gonzo to attend for a chat (with others) to try and improve the match day experience, decline that opportunity after reading a lot of people in here be unhappy, listen to a lot of fans at the boats be unhappy etc and do square root of fuck all. I’d much rather have tried and we did. Did we get SOME improvements? Yes. Was it enough? No. Was it anything major? No. We didn’t get invited because we go to home and away games (although gonzo goes to a reasonable amount anyway), we got invited because we are ‘part of the social media brigade’ and read ALL fans opinions and took them into the room.

Tell you what though, we wouldn’t have gone into a meeting on Thursday and not argued the case for the away season ticket holders renewal deadline being in the middle of April like the OSB just did. Does any of this make me or gonzo a better fan than anyone else? No. We just cared.
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prince of wales
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by prince of wales » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:27 am

I made no reference on the other thread to what constituted a 'better fan'.I said I couldn't understand why someone couldn't understand what was wrong and some nutter went crazy saying he went to all the home games not on TV and couldn't see much wrong.By saying that a lot of our people went to all the games I was trying to say,not that they were better fans than him,but that surely the more games you go to the more likely you are to see the problems.Keyboard warriers ,god help us.
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by LoxfordIron » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:46 am

Hammers United have made it quite clear that their group is for all West Ham fans [ALL]!!!!!.
That includes friends that I have who've lived in Australia for 20 years and ones that I meet before home games that have Home and Away season tickets.
My humble opinion is that there is so much wrong at West Ham and if by joining Hammers United I can do my little bit to remind certain people that we will not just quietly leave the Club we love, that's what I'm gonna do.
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Whiskyman
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by Whiskyman » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:54 am

Can't we all agree this "better fan" argument is a load of bollocks and pack our handbags away ? When I used to go to all the games I never considered myself to be some kind of super fan. I did it because I could afford to and I enjoyed doing it. Not because I felt it was something I had to do to achieve "super fan" status.

The season before our final year at Upton Park I made a decision to stop going while the present owners were still there and I haven't been to a live game since, unless you count a pre season friendly the kids played against Barnet before the start of last season. So I guess some people would say that I am no longer a fan which tbh worries me not one fucking bit.

During my going to games period I met a lot of very nice people and a much smaller number of people who I wouldn't piss on if they caught fire in front of me. One thing they all had was a love of anything West Ham. Some were fortunate enough to be able to afford to go regularly, some weren't. Some could only go when work didn't interfere. But they all loved the club, celebrated when we won and drowned their sorrows after a defeat.

As for the WHUISA and the new Hammers United my personal view is that they will be wasting their time. But it's their time to waste isn't it ? If they honestly think they can bring about improvements then good luck to them. If they are prepared to give up their time trying to improve things for the rest then it doesn't matter to me whether they travel the length and breadth of the country following the team or whether they've never been to a game for the last few seasons.
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Brookbonds73
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by Brookbonds73 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:25 am

I blame brexit.
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grandad
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by grandad » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:31 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:54 am
Can't we all agree this "better fan" argument is a load of bollocks and pack our handbags away ? When I used to go to all the games I never considered myself to be some kind of super fan. I did it because I could afford to and I enjoyed doing it. Not because I felt it was something I had to do to achieve "super fan" status.

The season before our final year at Upton Park I made a decision to stop going while the present owners were still there and I haven't been to a live game since, unless you count a pre season friendly the kids played against Barnet before the start of last season. So I guess some people would say that I am no longer a fan which tbh worries me not one fucking bit.

During my going to games period I met a lot of very nice people and a much smaller number of people who I wouldn't piss on if they caught fire in front of me. One thing they all had was a love of anything West Ham. Some were fortunate enough to be able to afford to go regularly, some weren't. Some could only go when work didn't interfere. But they all loved the club, celebrated when we won and drowned their sorrows after a defeat.

As for the WHUISA and the new Hammers United my personal view is that they will be wasting their time. But it's their time to waste isn't it ? If they honestly think they can bring about improvements then good luck to them. If they are prepared to give up their time trying to improve things for the rest then it doesn't matter to me whether they travel the length and breadth of the country following the team or whether they've never been to a game for the last few seasons.
[/quo



Good post whiskey. I’ve voted with my feet regards the owners and the track ( grandsons mascots had to go and spuds in cup I was bought a ticket ) but anything that’s helps the fans is good in my opinion.

And if you never miss a game or never go to a game but are both West Ham fans then you are just that.


I never missed a game home and away for years and don’t go now but I am still West Ham all the same.
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Whiskyman
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by Whiskyman » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:13 am

grandad wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:31 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:54 am
Can't we all agree this "better fan" argument is a load of bollocks and pack our handbags away ? When I used to go to all the games I never considered myself to be some kind of super fan. I did it because I could afford to and I enjoyed doing it. Not because I felt it was something I had to do to achieve "super fan" status.

The season before our final year at Upton Park I made a decision to stop going while the present owners were still there and I haven't been to a live game since, unless you count a pre season friendly the kids played against Barnet before the start of last season. So I guess some people would say that I am no longer a fan which tbh worries me not one fucking bit.

During my going to games period I met a lot of very nice people and a much smaller number of people who I wouldn't piss on if they caught fire in front of me. One thing they all had was a love of anything West Ham. Some were fortunate enough to be able to afford to go regularly, some weren't. Some could only go when work didn't interfere. But they all loved the club, celebrated when we won and drowned their sorrows after a defeat.

As for the WHUISA and the new Hammers United my personal view is that they will be wasting their time. But it's their time to waste isn't it ? If they honestly think they can bring about improvements then good luck to them. If they are prepared to give up their time trying to improve things for the rest then it doesn't matter to me whether they travel the length and breadth of the country following the team or whether they've never been to a game for the last few seasons.


Good post whiskey. I’ve voted with my feet regards the owners and the track ( grandsons mascots had to go and spuds in cup I was bought a ticket ) but anything that’s helps the fans is good in my opinion.

And if you never miss a game or never go to a game but are both West Ham fans then you are just that.


I never missed a game home and away for years and don’t go now but I am still West Ham all the same.
I remember the last game of the 85/86 season, the best season ever imo. I always drove to matches with a mate and we picked up a couple of kids thumbing it to the game as we joined the M1 at Luton. They were only about 13 or 14 and I remember one of them was absolutely shitting himself about what his old man would do when he got back home because he wasn't allowed to go to away games. But he went. Poor little sods didn't have enough money to get in when we arrived so we weighed in for them and bought them some grub. But they were so desperate to see what could have been the biggest match in our history so despite everything they went.

They couldn't afford to go regularly but what they didn't know about West Ham wasn't worth knowing. I always reckon I could do OK in a football quiz but those two kids would have kicked my arse into touch. If that was the only game they ever went to I'd still regard them as every bit as much of a fan as I was back then.
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Whiskyman
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by Whiskyman » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:14 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:13 am
grandad wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:31 pm




Good post whiskey. I’ve voted with my feet regards the owners and the track ( grandsons mascots had to go and spuds in cup I was bought a ticket ) but anything that’s helps the fans is good in my opinion.

And if you never miss a game or never go to a game but are both West Ham fans then you are just that.


I never missed a game home and away for years and don’t go now but I am still West Ham all the same.
I remember the last game of the 85/86 season, the best season ever imo. I always drove to matches with a mate and we picked up a couple of kids thumbing it to the game as we joined the M1 at Luton. They were only about 13 or 14 and I remember one of them was absolutely shitting himself about what his old man would do when he got back home because he wasn't allowed to go to away games. But he went. Poor little sods didn't have enough money to get in when we arrived so we weighed in for them and bought them some grub. But they were so desperate to see what could have been the biggest match in our history so despite everything they went.

They couldn't afford to go regularly but what they didn't know about West Ham wasn't worth knowing. I always reckon I could do OK in a football quiz but those two kids would have kicked my arse into touch. If that was the only game they ever went to I'd still regard them as every bit as much of a fan as I was back then.
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TRADITION--Just because we've always done it like this doesn't mean it's not incredibly SILLY

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21212
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Re: The Better fan argument

Post by 21212 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:53 am

There is an hierarchy of supporters.

Harsh facts:
You have to be born within 5 miles of ground to be a real supporter as that is the only way you can really feel the club.
You have to attend matches regularly to be a real supporter.
You have to see the negatives around the club as Sky, happy clapper fans are the ones that see everything as great. True fans hate things about the club as that shows the depth of feelings only true fans possess.
You have to live with 20 miles of club to be a true supporter.
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