Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

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Whiskyman
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Whiskyman » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:21 pm

terrya1965 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:51 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:36 am


Think I must have logged onto a Liverpool forum with all this victim speak. The offside goal was offside but it was hardly a cock up comparable to the one at the Liverpool game. VAR would have disallowed it but it was very marginal.

We were the better team today. All the pundits said so, Solskjaer said so and most of the Man United fans I heard on phone ins tonight said so. But were we "cheated" ? Of course we fucking weren't. Ther officials got it wrong but it was hardly blatant. We are becoming more like Victimpool every fucking week with this fucking whining shit.

No wonder we are becoming one of the most disliked teams in the fucking league.
I can name 3 games against United,where the officials favoured them.Their equalizer in the Cup in 2016.The sending off of one of our players last year after 5 minutes last January in the League,when it clearly wasn`t.
Yes of course,we get one or two going our way,but not against the big teams.
Everyone who complains that big teams get the bulk of the decisions are missing one very important point imo. Generally they have most of the ball and most of the play (not so yesterday, I'll give you) so if they are on the offensive more of the time they will get more decisions. Can't remember the cup game but I do remember the sending off. I seem to remember it was Phil Jones who was involved.

I maintain it's not corruption. It's just good old fashioned incompetence. I do agree borderline decisions often go the way of the home club. Probably inevitably. Apparently Mike Dean was at it at Burnley yesterday and they aren't a big club. But blaming everything on bent officials is often just another excuse for us to hind behind.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by IronsForever » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:40 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:21 pm
terrya1965 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:51 am


I can name 3 games against United,where the officials favoured them.Their equalizer in the Cup in 2016.The sending off of one of our players last year after 5 minutes last January in the League,when it clearly wasn`t.
Yes of course,we get one or two going our way,but not against the big teams.
Everyone who complains that big teams get the bulk of the decisions are missing one very important point imo. Generally they have most of the ball and most of the play (not so yesterday, I'll give you) so if they are on the offensive more of the time they will get more decisions. Can't remember the cup game but I do remember the sending off. I seem to remember it was Phil Jones who was involved.

I maintain it's not corruption. It's just good old fashioned incompetence. I do agree borderline decisions often go the way of the home club. Probably inevitably. Apparently Mike Dean was at it at Burnley yesterday and they aren't a big club. But blaming everything on bent officials is often just another excuse for us to hind behind.
Just like to add that yesterday's decisions were very marginal. But when its a 50/50 decision for the Ref at Man U you are NOT going to get it in your favor. But that might also apply for us if we were at home.
Strikers can be very clever lol. They see a defender coming at them, slow up a little and move across the defender FOUL. Pen. VAR would have produced a different result but thats football. If we had got that and IF the Ref gave that and IF. All this will leave the game. Is that a good thing?
Will VAR lead to less competent Ref's Refereeing the game? Take the SAT Nav for example. Before they came out a taxi driver had to know where he was going. Now any Tom, Dick and Patel can jump in a car and take people home.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by BlackDiamond » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:59 pm

IronsForever wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:40 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:21 pm


Everyone who complains that big teams get the bulk of the decisions are missing one very important point imo. Generally they have most of the ball and most of the play (not so yesterday, I'll give you) so if they are on the offensive more of the time they will get more decisions. Can't remember the cup game but I do remember the sending off. I seem to remember it was Phil Jones who was involved.

I maintain it's not corruption. It's just good old fashioned incompetence. I do agree borderline decisions often go the way of the home club. Probably inevitably. Apparently Mike Dean was at it at Burnley yesterday and they aren't a big club. But blaming everything on bent officials is often just another excuse for us to hind behind.
Just like to add that yesterday's decisions were very marginal. But when its a 50/50 decision for the Ref at Man U you are NOT going to get it in your favor. But that might also apply for us if we were at home.
Strikers can be very clever lol. They see a defender coming at them, slow up a little and move across the defender FOUL. Pen. VAR would have produced a different result but thats football. If we had got that and IF the Ref gave that and IF. All this will leave the game. Is that a good thing?
Will VAR lead to less competent Ref's Refereeing the game? Take the SAT Nav for example. Before they came out a taxi driver had to know where he was going. Now any Tom, Dick and Patel can jump in a car and take people home.
Let's remember that VAR (Video Assistance) is not AI. It's a 3 person review of replay with a consensus being the majority.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by IronsForever » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:39 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:59 pm
IronsForever wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:40 pm


Just like to add that yesterday's decisions were very marginal. But when its a 50/50 decision for the Ref at Man U you are NOT going to get it in your favor. But that might also apply for us if we were at home.
Strikers can be very clever lol. They see a defender coming at them, slow up a little and move across the defender FOUL. Pen. VAR would have produced a different result but thats football. If we had got that and IF the Ref gave that and IF. All this will leave the game. Is that a good thing?
Will VAR lead to less competent Ref's Refereeing the game? Take the SAT Nav for example. Before they came out a taxi driver had to know where he was going. Now any Tom, Dick and Patel can jump in a car and take people home.
Let's remember that VAR (Video Assistance) is not AI. It's a 3 person review of replay with a consensus being the majority.
Won't be long before we have " Robotic Ref's"
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Whiskyman » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:06 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:59 pm
IronsForever wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:40 pm


Just like to add that yesterday's decisions were very marginal. But when its a 50/50 decision for the Ref at Man U you are NOT going to get it in your favor. But that might also apply for us if we were at home.
Strikers can be very clever lol. They see a defender coming at them, slow up a little and move across the defender FOUL. Pen. VAR would have produced a different result but thats football. If we had got that and IF the Ref gave that and IF. All this will leave the game. Is that a good thing?
Will VAR lead to less competent Ref's Refereeing the game? Take the SAT Nav for example. Before they came out a taxi driver had to know where he was going. Now any Tom, Dick and Patel can jump in a car and take people home.
Let's remember that VAR (Video Assistance) is not AI. It's a 3 person review of replay with a consensus being the majority.
That's right. Imo had it been in operation yesterday the Anderson "goal" would have stood because that was a matter of actual fact. The first penalty ? Don't think any of us can honestly say what the verdict on that would have been. But I thought in any case the rules about VAR were for it to be used in the case of a "clear and obvious error". Imo neither of yesterday's were clear and obvious whereas the Liverpool goal at the LS clearly was.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by palerider » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:36 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:06 pm
BlackDiamond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:59 pm

Let's remember that VAR (Video Assistance) is not AI. It's a 3 person review of replay with a consensus being the majority.
That's right. Imo had it been in operation yesterday the Anderson "goal" would have stood because that was a matter of actual fact. The first penalty ? Don't think any of us can honestly say what the verdict on that would have been. But I thought in any case the rules about VAR were for it to be used in the case of a "clear and obvious error". Imo neither of yesterday's were clear and obvious whereas the Liverpool goal at the LS clearly was.
The first penalty would most likely have stood according to Peter Walton, the ex-ref who sits on the BT match panel. He didn't think it was one himself but to overturn the decision, VAR needs to prove 100% that it was a wrong call.

Myself, I think it was 100% but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by BlackDiamond » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:02 am

palerider wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:36 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:06 pm


That's right. Imo had it been in operation yesterday the Anderson "goal" would have stood because that was a matter of actual fact. The first penalty ? Don't think any of us can honestly say what the verdict on that would have been. But I thought in any case the rules about VAR were for it to be used in the case of a "clear and obvious error". Imo neither of yesterday's were clear and obvious whereas the Liverpool goal at the LS clearly was.
The first penalty would most likely have stood according to Peter Walton, the ex-ref who sits on the BT match panel. He didn't think it was one himself but to overturn the decision, VAR needs to prove 100% that it was a wrong call.

Myself, I think it was 100% but that's just my opinion.
Absolutely. Both penalties were just, in terms of both challenges probably being infringements by the letter of the law.

The Anderson disallowed goal was on later analysis an error and VAR might have trapped that. However,the current off-side law doesn't allow for accurate interpretation during live time events. It therefore needs changing obviously because it's current application is not useful in assisting those who have to apply it.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Newmarket » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:03 pm

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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Hammertime » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:10 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:02 am
palerider wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:36 am

The first penalty would most likely have stood according to Peter Walton, the ex-ref who sits on the BT match panel. He didn't think it was one himself but to overturn the decision, VAR needs to prove 100% that it was a wrong call.

Myself, I think it was 100% but that's just my opinion.
Absolutely. Both penalties were just, in terms of both challenges probably being infringements by the letter of the law.

The Anderson disallowed goal was on later analysis an error and VAR might have trapped that. However,the current off-side law doesn't allow for accurate interpretation during live time events. It therefore needs changing obviously because it's current application is not useful in assisting those who have to apply it.
The first penalty was soft, shoulder to shoulder (despite Mata's legs flying out backwards from under him) and not from as behind as described. A lot of refs wouldn't have given that and VAR would've highlighted Mata's dive.
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Re: Man Utd vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by mkhammer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Newmarket wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:03 pm
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/04/16/j ... nalty-dec/

Shock horror 😳

Saw Carraghers name,and stopped reading straight away....have no interest in what that bloke
says.....
Tells England to shove it,cos he thought he was better than Rio and Terry,and Gobs all over a
Bloke and a 14 year old Girl for having a laugh.....WTF is he doing on our screens

But he's from Liverpool...so the free pass thing comes in I spose....
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