World class players...?

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BCHammer
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World class players...?

Post by BCHammer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:32 pm

So our baroness promised us a world class stadium and world class players - are we finally getting the latter?

Bearing in mind we have no European football, have not won a trophy in 40 years and are a mid table club with a song about losing, with the signing of the Haller, Fornals, Anderson, Yarmo, Diop & Wilshere are we getting the best we could possibly expect? IMO all those blokes are a couple of levels above the Shelvey's and Mooy's of the world we were generally linked to before. Next level is real champions league players, in fact most of those could or have played in it.

Our GK is statistically the best in the league, I would rank him 4th and he is certainly not worth 100% less than Chelsea's keeper.

I would take our whole defense over Arsenal's any day, even Man Utd's minus Shaw. In fact, minus Aubameyang & Lacazette and Pogba & De Gea, are we even better on paper those both of those two now? I would take Haller over Rashford & Lukaku any day too.

On paper, how do we think we now compare with Leicester, Wolves, Everton & Watford, the window not being over of course? I think we look pretty decent.

What we really need is consistency and showing up to the bottom half teams every week. What is needed to address that?
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h69
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Re: World class players...?

Post by h69 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:19 pm

A couple of years ago we had Matt Taylor, Gary O'Neill, Carlton Cole, Kevin Nolan and Modibo Maiga, Vaz Te and Matt Jarvis.

Now we have Declan Rice, Issa Diop, Balbuena, Haller, Fornals, Anderson, Yarmolenko, Antonio and Wilshere.

It is definitely next level stuff. We have gone from honest pros to quality. If Wilshere can stay fit (a big If I know) then we have a formidable side as he would gel it all together IMO.

It does seem to take 3 years of transfers to transform a side. You cannot do it in one as Jan is a waste of time. So many clubs would benefit from trying to keep a manager longer than a year or two.

Wolves are an anomaly given them being in bed with the agent in Portugal but I dont understand NES complaining that they lack players this season when they decided to sell Cavaleiro and Helder Costa. A big chunk of change has gone in converting loans to permanents.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: World class players...?

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:43 pm

For me we've more strengths than weaknesses now.
The only real worries are fullback and DM/CM.
Our starting XI is good enough on paper to push for 6th/7th. I'd love to see us go out and secure a good, solid left back and a box to box midfielder.
It's worth noting we've not got a single loan, so surely there must be someone out there that can improve us in those positions.
Exciting times at the Iconic. Manuel Pellegrini's claret and blue army. ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL.
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Re: World class players...?

Post by Clayton » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:42 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:43 pm
For me we've more strengths than weaknesses now.
The only real worries are fullback and DM/CM.
Our starting XI is good enough on paper to push for 6th/7th. I'd love to see us go out and secure a good, solid left back and a box to box midfielder.
It's worth noting we've not got a single loan, so surely there must be someone out there that can improve us in those positions.
Exciting times at the Iconic. Manuel Pellegrini's claret and blue army. ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL.
Love it when we say , our starting Xl on paper is good enough to push for 6th/7th . Problem I think we have and have had for as long as I can remember is having only the one decent midfielder in Noble , apart from when we had Parker . Yes I know we still have Noble but he just isn't consistently good enough now to partner Rice . Sanchez is crap , Snodgrass is just to slow cant deny his attitude ( but his attitude will not get us through up against the better teams ) . Wilshere can we really rely on his body staying in one piece . We have a very good attack now with Lanzini , Anderson , Fornals with the first decent striker of any merit for over 30 years in Haller . So we will just have to out score our opposition because another problem area for us is in our fullbacks , Masuaku isnt good enough and Cresswell appears accident prone now , on the other side we have the ageing Zabaleta , and Fredericks who looks to have a decent player in there , just hope my feelings are right .
Still think Arsenal , Man Utd and Chelsea though poorer then they have been for years still have better starting elevens , along with Wolves , Leicester and Everton then us . And on top of the tree will be the likes of Man City , Liverpool and Spurs . So in reality if we are fighting for anything it will be 10th , unless we can sign that CM/DM that Rice needs to partner him and to get into the top six we will need the fullbacks to be replaced .
Last edited by Clayton on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: World class players...?

Post by punkrockhammer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:15 pm

BCHammer wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:32 pm
So our baroness promised us a world class stadium and world class players - are we finally getting the latter?

Bearing in mind we have no European football, have not won a trophy in 40 years and are a mid table club with a song about losing, with the signing of the Haller, Fornals, Anderson, Yarmo, Diop & Wilshere are we getting the best we could possibly expect? IMO all those blokes are a couple of levels above the Shelvey's and Mooy's of the world we were generally linked to before. Next level is real champions league players, in fact most of those could or have played in it.

Our GK is statistically the best in the league, I would rank him 4th and he is certainly not worth 100% less than Chelsea's keeper.

I would take our whole defense over Arsenal's any day, even Man Utd's minus Shaw. In fact, minus Aubameyang & Lacazette and Pogba & De Gea, are we even better on paper those both of those two now? I would take Haller over Rashford & Lukaku any day too.

On paper, how do we think we now compare with Leicester, Wolves, Everton & Watford, the window not being over of course? I think we look pretty decent.

What we really need is consistency and showing up to the bottom half teams every week. What is needed to address that?
I know what you’re saying about Arsenal’s defence but I’d take Bellerin over Zabaletta and Fredericks all day long
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punkrockhammer
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Re: World class players...?

Post by punkrockhammer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:16 pm

h69 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:19 pm
A couple of years ago we had Matt Taylor, Gary O'Neill, Carlton Cole, Kevin Nolan and Modibo Maiga, Vaz Te and Matt Jarvis.

Now we have Declan Rice, Issa Diop, Balbuena, Haller, Fornals, Anderson, Yarmolenko, Antonio and Wilshere.

It is definitely next level stuff. We have gone from honest pros to quality. If Wilshere can stay fit (a big If I know) then we have a formidable side as he would gel it all together IMO.

It does seem to take 3 years of transfers to transform a side. You cannot do it in one as Jan is a waste of time. So many clubs would benefit from trying to keep a manager longer than a year or two.

Wolves are an anomaly given them being in bed with the agent in Portugal but I dont understand NES complaining that they lack players this season when they decided to sell Cavaleiro and Helder Costa. A big chunk of change has gone in converting loans to permanents.
Not strictly true, most of those are a bit longer than a couple of years ago

A couple of years ago we had Payet :lol:
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Neville Bartos
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Re: World class players...?

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:33 pm

Clayton wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:42 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:43 pm
For me we've more strengths than weaknesses now.
The only real worries are fullback and DM/CM.
Our starting XI is good enough on paper to push for 6th/7th. I'd love to see us go out and secure a good, solid left back and a box to box midfielder.
It's worth noting we've not got a single loan, so surely there must be someone out there that can improve us in those positions.
Exciting times at the Iconic. Manuel Pellegrini's claret and blue army. ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL.
Love it when we say , our starting Xl on paper is good enough to push for 6th/7th . Problem I think we have and have had for as long as I can remember is having only the one decent midfielder in Noble , apart from when we had Parker . Yes I know we still have Noble but he just isn't consistently good enough now to partner Rice . Sanchez is crap , Snodgrass is just to slow cant deny his attitude ( but his attitude will not get us through up against the better teams ) . Wilshere can we really rely on his body staying in one piece . We have a very good attack now with Lanzini , Anderson , Fornals with the first decent striker of any merit for over 20 years in Haller . So will will just have to out score our opposition because another problem area for us is in our fullbacks , Masuaku isnt good enough and Cresswell appears accident prone now , on the other side we have the ageing Zabaleta , and Fredericks who looks to have a decent player in there , just hope my feelings are right .
Still think Arsenal , Man Utd and Chelsea though poorer then they have been for years still have better starting elevens , along with Wolves , Leicester and Everton then us . And on top of the tree will be the likes of Man City , Liverpool and Spurs . So in reality if we are fighting for anything it will be 10th , unless we can sign that CM/DM that Rice needs to partner him and to get into the top six we will need the fullbacks to be replaced .
I'd say left back is more pressing than right. We at least have Fredericks and Johnson on the right, and both have youth and potential on their side.
Cresswell's injuries and Masuakas inability to defend are not things experience are going to fix. I'd be tempted to give someone like Fabio Coentrao or Filipe Luis a 6 month, or even 1 year deal. There's nothing wrong with doing that if you're just plugging the odd gap.
And we've a ton of wages off the books, so it really is a free hit.
The DM position is trickier, but I'm hoping for Husillos magic on this one.

As for where we'll finish, I'd say it's up in the air. I can't see us doing worse than 10th, simply because we've only really lost the moody Austrian, and he spent half of last season being either useless or disruptive. If Haller and Fornals hit the ground running 6th isn't unrealistic.
None of the midpack was significantly better than us last season and we look to be doing the better business in this window.
And who knows how shit Manure will be with their bargain basement manager, Arsenal look skint and bereft of ideas, and the plastics are stagnating and have a unproven manager. I honestly think that all things considered one of us, Wolves, or maybe Everton could nick fourth. Even the Spuds who have looked a solid number 3 lost 13 league games last season. I think top 2 aside the league is more open than it has been in a long time.
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mkhammer
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Re: World class players...?

Post by mkhammer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:30 pm

Trouble is what does for us seems like it's been happening forever is the Injuries...
They slaughter us time and time again...and its not improving,and is as bad as ever since the move,
it's the reason I can't and don't really dig out our managers to much,they're usually missing key
players...we all have a pop at Moyes but he had hardly any defence to play with.
Honestly believe injury free last season we would have pissed 7th,it was a cracking looking squad,
but we lost way to many,and if not for a great season from Fab,we wouldn't have dropped,but
could have been down there with Bournemouth in 14th or so...thats the difference the injuries
make.

Don't think it's just us improving tho...cos of the TV money in the PL,Ave side like Wolves, Watford,
Leicester ...others can pay huge wages and get in some of the the worlds best players..
Lets be honest Hallers only here cos of the money....the same thing were digging Arnie out for..
He'll want away if and when a CL club comes along with a 100Gs+ a week offer,modern game..
I'd be the same.

Hopefully this next season will be the exciting one I/We were expecting last year,cos we have
some serious talent now.....us going forward injury free, cant wait....defensively,still needs
sorting I think,we have to keep Balbeuna and Diop fit, lose either...think we'll struggle,would
like us to get in that Cuellar bloke for Obi as well....tighten up the defensive MF up a bit with
some cover..

Looking forward to a cracking season.... :D
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Re: World class players...?

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:06 pm

Clayton wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:42 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:43 pm
For me we've more strengths than weaknesses now.
The only real worries are fullback and DM/CM.
Our starting XI is good enough on paper to push for 6th/7th. I'd love to see us go out and secure a good, solid left back and a box to box midfielder.
It's worth noting we've not got a single loan, so surely there must be someone out there that can improve us in those positions.
Exciting times at the Iconic. Manuel Pellegrini's claret and blue army. ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, GOAL, ALLER, ALLER, ALLER, GOAL, GOAL, GOAL.
Love it when we say , our starting Xl on paper is good enough to push for 6th/7th . Problem I think we have and have had for as long as I can remember is having only the one decent midfielder in Noble , apart from when we had Parker . Yes I know we still have Noble but he just isn't consistently good enough now to partner Rice . Sanchez is crap , Snodgrass is just to slow cant deny his attitude ( but his attitude will not get us through up against the better teams ) . Wilshere can we really rely on his body staying in one piece . We have a very good attack now with Lanzini , Anderson , Fornals with the first decent striker of any merit for over 30 years in Haller . So we will just have to out score our opposition because another problem area for us is in our fullbacks , Masuaku isnt good enough and Cresswell appears accident prone now , on the other side we have the ageing Zabaleta , and Fredericks who looks to have a decent player in there , just hope my feelings are right .
Still think Arsenal , Man Utd and Chelsea though poorer then they have been for years still have better starting elevens , along with Wolves , Leicester and Everton then us . And on top of the tree will be the likes of Man City , Liverpool and Spurs . So in reality if we are fighting for anything it will be 10th , unless we can sign that CM/DM that Rice needs to partner him and to get into the top six we will need the fullbacks to be replaced .
I really don't get why the likes of Leicester and Everton (and even Wolves to a certain extent) are seen as being so far ahead of us that 10th place is the height of our ambitions. We finished 2 points behind Everton last season and level on points with Leicester.

Imo the league is going to be much more open this time round because I do think Arsenal, Chelsea and Man United are there to be replaced in the top 6. Not just by us of course but I simply can't see why it is being assumed by a lot of people that somehow Leicester and Everton have become regarded as the new elite.
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Re: World class players...?

Post by Gonzo » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:14 pm

World class is a tough one because I think consistency plays a part in that.

However when they are on their best form I do think that Anderson, Lanzini and Wilshere can play like top class players.

As sated above our goalkeeper appears comparable with the best based on last seasons evidence and I believe Balbuena and Diop have some good qualities.

There's no point speculating on Foranals or Haller who have yet to play a game but if our good players can start to find form at the same time we'll be a real attacking force.
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