Shareholder Loans

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prince of wales
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Shareholder Loans

Post by prince of wales » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 am

With the transfer window closed there has been much analysis of Premier League spending.West Ham were 9th in net spend.

We bought 2 players who we hope will star and pay a huge part in our season.We bought a couple of young players we have high hopes for and we bought 2 goalkeepers who most are underwhelmed with.At Hammers United we were a little disappointed that funds were not made available to strengthen the full back and defensive midfield areas.
Other supporters are happier with West Ham’s transfer window.-We all hope that results prove the Board made the correct decisions and that West Ham United have a successful season.

What we could not understand is how Brighton(Amex Stadium capacity 30666)could outspend us and how Bournemouth(Vitality Stadium capacity 11329)were not far behind us.-And how Aston Villa could have a net spend of 137 million outspending everyone!

West Ham fans were of course promised ‘next level’ and ‘a world class team for a world class stadium’ .Now Hammers United are not the Board’s biggest fans.Perhaps they lied to us,perhaps they have just been overtaken by events with much richer owners than them taking over Premier League clubs.-But they cannot be blamed that some other owners leave them trailing in the riches stakes.-Although surely they now realise that they are unable to deliver on their promises and should sell the club.

The answer to how Bournemouth and Brighton were able to spend so much on transfers is shareholder’s loans and below is a table which is not good reading for West Ham United’s fans or Board,especially bearing in mind that Mr Gold is a self confessed West Ham Fan and that Mr Sullivan purports to be(although he is in fact a Cardiff fan.) .

Owner Loans Other Loans Shares Net Interest Dividends
1 Chelsea 1,155.4 60.0 61.3 (0.9) 0.0
2 Brighton 222.7 0.1 95.2 0.8 0.0
3 Everton 149.3 75.2 25.3 2.8 0.0
4 Newcastle 144.0 0.8 75.6 (1.8) 0.0
5 Liverpool 99.9 55.1 102.0 7.6 0.0
6 Watford 83.4 2.9 1.1 5.2 0.0
7 Wolves 75.0 0.0 78.7 0.5 0.0
8 Bournemouth 69.3 0.0 21.1 1.8 0.0
9 West Ham 54.5 10.6 35.0 3.7 0.0
10 Crystal Palace 35.2 30.6 92.7 1.7 0.0
11 Leicester 24.6 0.2 121.2 2.7 0.0
12 Manchester City 12.7 66.0 1,361.4 1.9 0.0
13 Sheffield United 2.1 0.0 28.8 0.1 0.0
14 Norwich 2.0 4.8 11.3 0.5 0.0
15 Aston Villa 1.0 5.0 126.5 0.9 0.0
16 Southampton 0.0 37.3 31.0 0.5 0.0
17 Manchester United 0.0 495.8 317.9 18.0 22.0
18 Arsenal 0.0 216.6 57.1 8.8 0.0
19 Spurs 0.0 460.7 45.4 18.2 0.0
20 Burnley 0.0 0.1 4.8 (0.0) 0.0
Total 2,131.1 1,521.8 2,693.5 72.9 22.0

The above figures were as of the 2018 Accounts,most clubs’ accounting periods ending in the summer. Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan have outstanding loans of £54.5 million owed to them by West Ham.Until April 2017 they charged west Ham 7% per annum interest but after bad press this was reduced to the current level of 4%.-In the accounting year ending 2018 interest amounted to £3.7 million.The frustrating thing to us is that West Ham could have loaned 2,maybe even 3 players for that money.That may well have led to a higher league position with the ensuing prize money more than compensating.Tripp Smith has lent West Ham £10 million.This is an interest free loan.
Brighton’s owners have lent them £222 million interest free.Bournemouth’s owners have lent them £69 million interest free.Aston Villa’s new owners have ploughed considerable finances into the club and since the above figures were produced lent the club £33 million interest free.-So therein lies the reason why these clubs were able to spend so much.

We already know that Everton and Wolves have wealthy owners but for the record Everton’s owners have lent them £149 million interest free and Wolves’ owners have lent them £75.0 million interest free.
What perhaps surprised us most was to learn that Mike Ashley,hated by many Newcastle fans,has in fact loaned the club £144 million interest free.

There is a worrying trend here for West Ham supporters.Most agree that due to ‘the big six dominance’ we start the season hoping to compete with others for seventh place.Should Everton and Wolves continue their investment programmes will we soon be competing for 9th place?.-Remember they have both spent millions upgrading training facilities,Wolves are about to start redeveloping Monineux and Everton plan to move into new FOOTBALL stadium in the near future.If Brighton and Aston Villa continue to invest could we even(surely not)be pushed down the pecking order to competing for 11th place.-and what about Leicester City with work well underway on their new £100 million training ground.

Unfortunately it seems that Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan will not be able to deliver on their promises of ‘next level’.As we said before perhaps they lied or perhaps they have been overtaken by events.Whatever it seems their only course of action is to look to sell the club to others who are able to move the club on.Until then they would go some way to improving their standing and popularity with the West Ham fans if they were to follow the lead of most of their fellow owners and not charge interest on loans.

We would like to place on record the assistance received from Kieran Maguire at the University of Liverpool in the writing of this article.-Many thanks Kieran.

Hammers United Committee.

We are doing our best to improve things for West Ham Supporters.Please check our website out www.hammersunited.com Thank You.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by Newmarket » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:00 am

prince of wales wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 am
With the transfer window closed there has been much analysis of Premier League spending.West Ham were 9th in net spend.

We bought 2 players who we hope will star and pay a huge part in our season.We bought a couple of young players we have high hopes for and we bought 2 goalkeepers who most are underwhelmed with.At Hammers United we were a little disappointed that funds were not made available to strengthen the full back and defensive midfield areas.
Other supporters are happier with West Ham’s transfer window.-We all hope that results prove the Board made the correct decisions and that West Ham United have a successful season.

What we could not understand is how Brighton(Amex Stadium capacity 30666)could outspend us and how Bournemouth(Vitality Stadium capacity 11329)were not far behind us.-And how Aston Villa could have a net spend of 137 million outspending everyone!

West Ham fans were of course promised ‘next level’ and ‘a world class team for a world class stadium’ .Now Hammers United are not the Board’s biggest fans.Perhaps they lied to us,perhaps they have just been overtaken by events with much richer owners than them taking over Premier League clubs.-But they cannot be blamed that some other owners leave them trailing in the riches stakes.-Although surely they now realise that they are unable to deliver on their promises and should sell the club.

The answer to how Bournemouth and Brighton were able to spend so much on transfers is shareholder’s loans and below is a table which is not good reading for West Ham United’s fans or Board,especially bearing in mind that Mr Gold is a self confessed West Ham Fan and that Mr Sullivan purports to be(although he is in fact a Cardiff fan.) .

Owner Loans Other Loans Shares Net Interest Dividends
1 Chelsea 1,155.4 60.0 61.3 (0.9) 0.0
2 Brighton 222.7 0.1 95.2 0.8 0.0
3 Everton 149.3 75.2 25.3 2.8 0.0
4 Newcastle 144.0 0.8 75.6 (1.8) 0.0
5 Liverpool 99.9 55.1 102.0 7.6 0.0
6 Watford 83.4 2.9 1.1 5.2 0.0
7 Wolves 75.0 0.0 78.7 0.5 0.0
8 Bournemouth 69.3 0.0 21.1 1.8 0.0
9 West Ham 54.5 10.6 35.0 3.7 0.0
10 Crystal Palace 35.2 30.6 92.7 1.7 0.0
11 Leicester 24.6 0.2 121.2 2.7 0.0
12 Manchester City 12.7 66.0 1,361.4 1.9 0.0
13 Sheffield United 2.1 0.0 28.8 0.1 0.0
14 Norwich 2.0 4.8 11.3 0.5 0.0
15 Aston Villa 1.0 5.0 126.5 0.9 0.0
16 Southampton 0.0 37.3 31.0 0.5 0.0
17 Manchester United 0.0 495.8 317.9 18.0 22.0
18 Arsenal 0.0 216.6 57.1 8.8 0.0
19 Spurs 0.0 460.7 45.4 18.2 0.0
20 Burnley 0.0 0.1 4.8 (0.0) 0.0
Total 2,131.1 1,521.8 2,693.5 72.9 22.0

The above figures were as of the 2018 Accounts,most clubs’ accounting periods ending in the summer. Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan have outstanding loans of £54.5 million owed to them by West Ham.Until April 2017 they charged west Ham 7% per annum interest but after bad press this was reduced to the current level of 4%.-In the accounting year ending 2018 interest amounted to £3.7 million.The frustrating thing to us is that West Ham could have loaned 2,maybe even 3 players for that money.That may well have led to a higher league position with the ensuing prize money more than compensating.Tripp Smith has lent West Ham £10 million.This is an interest free loan.
Brighton’s owners have lent them £222 million interest free.Bournemouth’s owners have lent them £69 million interest free.Aston Villa’s new owners have ploughed considerable finances into the club and since the above figures were produced lent the club £33 million interest free.-So therein lies the reason why these clubs were able to spend so much.

We already know that Everton and Wolves have wealthy owners but for the record Everton’s owners have lent them £149 million interest free and Wolves’ owners have lent them £75.0 million interest free.
What perhaps surprised us most was to learn that Mike Ashley,hated by many Newcastle fans,has in fact loaned the club £144 million interest free.

There is a worrying trend here for West Ham supporters.Most agree that due to ‘the big six dominance’ we start the season hoping to compete with others for seventh place.Should Everton and Wolves continue their investment programmes will we soon be competing for 9th place?.-Remember they have both spent millions upgrading training facilities,Wolves are about to start redeveloping Monineux and Everton plan to move into new FOOTBALL stadium in the near future.If Brighton and Aston Villa continue to invest could we even(surely not)be pushed down the pecking order to competing for 11th place.-and what about Leicester City with work well underway on their new £100 million training ground.

Unfortunately it seems that Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan will not be able to deliver on their promises of ‘next level’.As we said before perhaps they lied or perhaps they have been overtaken by events.Whatever it seems their only course of action is to look to sell the club to others who are able to move the club on.Until then they would go some way to improving their standing and popularity with the West Ham fans if they were to follow the lead of most of their fellow owners and not charge interest on loans.

We would like to place on record the assistance received from Kieran Maguire at the University of Liverpool in the writing of this article.-Many thanks Kieran.

Hammers United Committee.

We are doing our best to improve things for West Ham Supporters.Please check our website out www.hammersunited.com Thank You.
That was a good read Paul , thanks for that and thanks to Mr Maguire whom I remember from our H/C 24hr stream .

One question for you though (and Kieron if he’s reading this)...

Do you think that the £3.7m shareholder divvies that the gruesome twosome helped themselves to in the latest accounts would have paid for a pair of full backs that can defend and a decent DM partner ( note partner NOT back up , for Rice ?

Bearing in mind Pellegrini doesn’t do loans and assuming the Dwarf is no longer picking our transfer targets ?
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by Whiskyman » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:23 am

But cutting through all the crap we can't get away from the fact that the dwarf is the majority shareholder and if he chooses to pay himself zillions of pounds in dividends no one can do anything about it. Not even the minority shareholders.

"Demanding" the board stump up more cash is a complete and utter waste of anyone's time. I feel certain that the dwarf's plan is to eventually sell. People more ITK than me say there is a time limit before he can sell without repaying some of the "discount" so when that time limit comes along maybe that's when we'll see the "For Sale" notices.

As for comparing shareholder loans and repayments with other clubs, football is just like any other business. There are well run companies, there are averagely run companies and there are badly run companies. Difference is the majority of football clubs are pretty much single ownership so change only happens when the majority shareholder wants it to.
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prince of wales
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by prince of wales » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:30 am

Newmarket.It would of course only pay for loans.Pellegrini is not keen on loans but we (in my opinion)needed strengthening one way or another.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by prince of wales » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:39 am

Whiskeyman.Everything you say is true mate.They own the club and can do what they want with it.But that dosn't mean they are above criticism.We have all heard the phrase 'they are merely custodians'.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by grandad » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:14 pm

I don’t think we will know what they fucked us over on money wise ( if they have that us ) till they have gone.


All 3 are masters of spin and spin they will till the end


Vile people
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by Whiskyman » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:15 pm

prince of wales wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:39 am
Whiskeyman.Everything you say is true mate.They own the club and can do what they want with it.But that dosn't mean they are above criticism.We have all heard the phrase 'they are merely custodians'.
I'm all for the criticism mate, and long may it continue. But to expect anything to come from it, as I guess you guys hope, is pie in the sky.

Not sure I agree that they are just custodians tbh. Sure they won't be there forever but they will be replaced by a new "custodian", for better or for worse. Owners will only be replaced by one thing. Hard cash from someone else. ;)

I admire the optimism you guys show, I really do even though it might not appear so, but, ask yourself, what have the dwarf and his mate got to gain by engaging in discussions with your group? Or any other group for that matter.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by prince of wales » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:52 pm

Whiskeyman,we are writing to The Premier League,UEFa and The department of Sport complaining to them that West Ham are ignoring guidelines whereby they should have dialogue with supporters groups.Last year when faced with a march they did infact meet some supporters.Where we are frustrated is that whilst we are putting numbers on every day and hope to have 10000 by Christmas if all the supporters like yourself did join up we would have 20000 and have much greater influence.We fight on and yes mate we are optimistic! we just cannot stand by and do nothing.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by h69 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:39 pm

Newmarket wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:00 am
prince of wales wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 am
With the transfer window closed there has been much analysis of Premier League spending.West Ham were 9th in net spend.

We bought 2 players who we hope will star and pay a huge part in our season.We bought a couple of young players we have high hopes for and we bought 2 goalkeepers who most are underwhelmed with.At Hammers United we were a little disappointed that funds were not made available to strengthen the full back and defensive midfield areas.
Other supporters are happier with West Ham’s transfer window.-We all hope that results prove the Board made the correct decisions and that West Ham United have a successful season.

What we could not understand is how Brighton(Amex Stadium capacity 30666)could outspend us and how Bournemouth(Vitality Stadium capacity 11329)were not far behind us.-And how Aston Villa could have a net spend of 137 million outspending everyone!

West Ham fans were of course promised ‘next level’ and ‘a world class team for a world class stadium’ .Now Hammers United are not the Board’s biggest fans.Perhaps they lied to us,perhaps they have just been overtaken by events with much richer owners than them taking over Premier League clubs.-But they cannot be blamed that some other owners leave them trailing in the riches stakes.-Although surely they now realise that they are unable to deliver on their promises and should sell the club.

The answer to how Bournemouth and Brighton were able to spend so much on transfers is shareholder’s loans and below is a table which is not good reading for West Ham United’s fans or Board,especially bearing in mind that Mr Gold is a self confessed West Ham Fan and that Mr Sullivan purports to be(although he is in fact a Cardiff fan.) .

Owner Loans Other Loans Shares Net Interest Dividends
1 Chelsea 1,155.4 60.0 61.3 (0.9) 0.0
2 Brighton 222.7 0.1 95.2 0.8 0.0
3 Everton 149.3 75.2 25.3 2.8 0.0
4 Newcastle 144.0 0.8 75.6 (1.8) 0.0
5 Liverpool 99.9 55.1 102.0 7.6 0.0
6 Watford 83.4 2.9 1.1 5.2 0.0
7 Wolves 75.0 0.0 78.7 0.5 0.0
8 Bournemouth 69.3 0.0 21.1 1.8 0.0
9 West Ham 54.5 10.6 35.0 3.7 0.0
10 Crystal Palace 35.2 30.6 92.7 1.7 0.0
11 Leicester 24.6 0.2 121.2 2.7 0.0
12 Manchester City 12.7 66.0 1,361.4 1.9 0.0
13 Sheffield United 2.1 0.0 28.8 0.1 0.0
14 Norwich 2.0 4.8 11.3 0.5 0.0
15 Aston Villa 1.0 5.0 126.5 0.9 0.0
16 Southampton 0.0 37.3 31.0 0.5 0.0
17 Manchester United 0.0 495.8 317.9 18.0 22.0
18 Arsenal 0.0 216.6 57.1 8.8 0.0
19 Spurs 0.0 460.7 45.4 18.2 0.0
20 Burnley 0.0 0.1 4.8 (0.0) 0.0
Total 2,131.1 1,521.8 2,693.5 72.9 22.0

The above figures were as of the 2018 Accounts,most clubs’ accounting periods ending in the summer. Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan have outstanding loans of £54.5 million owed to them by West Ham.Until April 2017 they charged west Ham 7% per annum interest but after bad press this was reduced to the current level of 4%.-In the accounting year ending 2018 interest amounted to £3.7 million.The frustrating thing to us is that West Ham could have loaned 2,maybe even 3 players for that money.That may well have led to a higher league position with the ensuing prize money more than compensating.Tripp Smith has lent West Ham £10 million.This is an interest free loan.
Brighton’s owners have lent them £222 million interest free.Bournemouth’s owners have lent them £69 million interest free.Aston Villa’s new owners have ploughed considerable finances into the club and since the above figures were produced lent the club £33 million interest free.-So therein lies the reason why these clubs were able to spend so much.

We already know that Everton and Wolves have wealthy owners but for the record Everton’s owners have lent them £149 million interest free and Wolves’ owners have lent them £75.0 million interest free.
What perhaps surprised us most was to learn that Mike Ashley,hated by many Newcastle fans,has in fact loaned the club £144 million interest free.

There is a worrying trend here for West Ham supporters.Most agree that due to ‘the big six dominance’ we start the season hoping to compete with others for seventh place.Should Everton and Wolves continue their investment programmes will we soon be competing for 9th place?.-Remember they have both spent millions upgrading training facilities,Wolves are about to start redeveloping Monineux and Everton plan to move into new FOOTBALL stadium in the near future.If Brighton and Aston Villa continue to invest could we even(surely not)be pushed down the pecking order to competing for 11th place.-and what about Leicester City with work well underway on their new £100 million training ground.

Unfortunately it seems that Mr Gold and Mr Sullivan will not be able to deliver on their promises of ‘next level’.As we said before perhaps they lied or perhaps they have been overtaken by events.Whatever it seems their only course of action is to look to sell the club to others who are able to move the club on.Until then they would go some way to improving their standing and popularity with the West Ham fans if they were to follow the lead of most of their fellow owners and not charge interest on loans.

We would like to place on record the assistance received from Kieran Maguire at the University of Liverpool in the writing of this article.-Many thanks Kieran.

Hammers United Committee.

We are doing our best to improve things for West Ham Supporters.Please check our website out www.hammersunited.com Thank You.
That was a good read Paul , thanks for that and thanks to Mr Maguire whom I remember from our H/C 24hr stream .

One question for you though (and Kieron if he’s reading this)...

Do you think that the £3.7m shareholder divvies that the gruesome twosome helped themselves to in the latest accounts would have paid for a pair of full backs that can defend and a decent DM partner ( note partner NOT back up , for Rice ?

Bearing in mind Pellegrini doesn’t do loans and assuming the Dwarf is no longer picking our transfer targets ?
Pellegrini hates loans but you are right, 3.7m is unlikely to fix it.

In fact, I believe they would have spent 8m on that other MF player at the last min if they could have got someone foreign out of the door to make the squad compliant (Pelle does not apparently want to just let Sanchez leave for free despite what people want).

We need to spend a full window budget to sort fullbacks and a decent Box to Box midfielder that would make a noticeable difference.
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Re: Shareholder Loans

Post by Hammertime » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:06 pm

I’ll say it again, we paid £8m for Ajeti, having not moved any other of our attacking players. Add that to the aforementioned £3.7, live with what you have at fb, release Sanchez on a free & you have the funds to pay for a quality, young centre-mid.
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