Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

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Kalnor
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Kalnor » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:09 am

boxman wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:56 pm
Kalnor wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:49 pm
Masu was a lot better, but Fredricks is a strange one. I like the guy and I think he’ll do well but a few times today he got lost on the attack. Too much hesitation and losing momentum when attacking. He should take a tip from Antonio and stick his head down and just run past the player.
what find really odd is most fans reaction to fredericks this week compared to last, this week he actually showed up and offered something.. last week he was completely anonymous.. fredericks upped his game today, was he great? fuck no.. but at least he showed up

maybe it's because we won and we were better on the whole and it was harder to blame oggy and masuaku today... sometimes i wonder if some people actually watch the football when we play.. i guess we all have our bias but would be refreshing to see opinions based more on what happened on the pitch for the 90 rather than how fans feel about a player
I guess with so much going on people focus on different aspects and remembering every part of a game is difficult, especially as you get older and as you say bias shows but I’m a fan of Fredricks, he actually made a great tackle early in game and I thought did ok defensively. But a few times when he attacked he hesitated or chose the wrong pass. I guess it stuck with me. I think you need to keep on top of your game and imho it’s helps with the odd rotation. I guessing he knows Zab isn’t looking over his shoulder and I think it will improve him knowing there is a player doing that.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by andyginbrasil » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 am

boxman wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:49 pm
Chicken Runner wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:07 pm
Thank god they didn't have their shooting boots on today. It was 7 shots apiece at around half time.
Masuasku and Fredericks are such a liability to us. Their flanks were getting in behind them time and time again. Masuaku doesn't seem to have a clue at times. 2nd goal was his fault I think, standing watching :roll:
overloaded.. masuaku had to close the player who got the ball for the assist, oggy had to cover gray... 3 or 4 of our other defenders marking air

and it wasn't just in the moment, the entire possession we were short on that side and crowded on our right
Unfortunately...we have another 16 matches or so...that we will repeating this, Box....but , hey we have got to live with it until someone comes in,I really think that Johnson could be that strength defensively that we are missing. The present two choices have created fuck all going forward, at least Johnson can defend.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Neville Bartos » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:42 pm

ZP Hammer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:50 pm
Can't say I'm unhappy with open, attacking football. This is what we were begging for when Allardyce and Moyes were in charge.
I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts. This time next year we could have Mark Hughes or Neil Warnock in charge. :D
No problem with it as long as we go all out to score. We can be pretty pedestrian in attack, very goal shy. We all said at start of season we'd have to outscore teams to win with our defense. We'll also have to be playing pretty profligate opposition each week because Watford were throwing away opportunities like candy.
It takes too long before we get into our goalscoring stride and some of our name players, e.g. Anderson and Yarmolenko, play well below their ability for long stretches of the game. While not comparing us to any other team directly, some others look threatening with every attack as there's a sense of purpose. We're great at kicking the ball around in the mid third but quite often look lost and bereft of confidence further forward.
The good news is that it's early in the season and we should expect the lads to be more cohesive further in. We should by now be feeling more confidence in the defense, that obviously is not the case though.
I think you're right. Haller is a very different kettle of fish to Arnautovic and Hernandez, so it could take a few more games before the rest of the team is really playing to his strengths going forward.
Considering he had very little preseason and this was just his second PL game, he looks a massive upgrade. His pass to Lanzini that lead to the penalty was excellent -- Lanzini should've buried it first time.
His instincts and finishing were brilliant too. And he seems a humble lad, saying he didn't play well, but scored a couple anyway. A bit of luck and he could've had a hat-trick and an assist, let's hope he plays that badly every week.
In defence I think we're suffering from the low budget, and sub £35m net is low. We could've done with a more seasoned CB, that C/DM we've needed for almost as long as we needed a striker, and a LB.
I get the feeling Husillos and Pellegrini just don't want to draft in temporary solutions and easy fixes.
From the players they've signed it seems they either want quality and/or potential, or they'd rather just save the money. No big wage veteran freebies, or last minute we just missed out excuses. Good Times, Imo.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Mancunian Hammer » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:28 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:38 am
Mancunian Hammer wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:07 pm


I'll go with that if all fit, I think there is a bit of pressure on Haller to hit the ground running. The idea to play Antonio and Haller up front together is an interesting one and their centre backs would not like it but I fear we would be overrun in midfield, definitely an appealing option if we are chasing a game though. These games are won and lost in midfield, if our midfield can take some control there will be less pressure on our dodgy full backs. Hopefully the manager will give them a rocket and let them know they have to win their battles and track back as well as the attacking. Brighton outclassed us.

Two teams low on confidence but we are only two games in we'll turn it around. Noble and Antonio to add a bit of steel.

A West Ham 2-0 win
You make some good points but if we are dependant on Messrs Noble & Antonio to give us a lift I'm afraid the expected improvement will be a while in coming. BD is spot on. Wait until a few games have been played and then make our judgments.
I don’t think we had to wait too long for Messrs Noble and Antonio to give us a lift. Not as cultured as some but very effective.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Newmarket » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:40 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:42 pm
ZP Hammer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 pm


No problem with it as long as we go all out to score. We can be pretty pedestrian in attack, very goal shy. We all said at start of season we'd have to outscore teams to win with our defense. We'll also have to be playing pretty profligate opposition each week because Watford were throwing away opportunities like candy.
It takes too long before we get into our goalscoring stride and some of our name players, e.g. Anderson and Yarmolenko, play well below their ability for long stretches of the game. While not comparing us to any other team directly, some others look threatening with every attack as there's a sense of purpose. We're great at kicking the ball around in the mid third but quite often look lost and bereft of confidence further forward.
The good news is that it's early in the season and we should expect the lads to be more cohesive further in. We should by now be feeling more confidence in the defense, that obviously is not the case though.
I think you're right. Haller is a very different kettle of fish to Arnautovic and Hernandez, so it could take a few more games before the rest of the team is really playing to his strengths going forward.
Considering he had very little preseason and this was just his second PL game, he looks a massive upgrade. His pass to Lanzini that lead to the penalty was excellent -- Lanzini should've buried it first time.
His instincts and finishing were brilliant too. And he seems a humble lad, saying he didn't play well, but scored a couple anyway. A bit of luck and he could've had a hat-trick and an assist, let's hope he plays that badly every week.
In defence I think we're suffering from the low budget, and sub £35m net is low. We could've done with a more seasoned CB, that C/DM we've needed for almost as long as we needed a striker, and a LB.
I get the feeling Husillos and Pellegrini just don't want to draft in temporary solutions and easy fixes.
From the players they've signed it seems they either want quality and/or potential, or they'd rather just save the money. No big wage veteran freebies, or last minute we just missed out excuses. Good Times, Imo.
Sounding , but without meaning to be , pedantic Nev .

And it is in reference to just a tiny bit of what is a very good post , but Haller had a perfectly good pre season mate .
He was playing in Preseason Friendlies for Frankfurt well before we signed him ;)
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Whiskyman » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:00 pm

andyginbrasil wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 am
boxman wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:49 pm


overloaded.. masuaku had to close the player who got the ball for the assist, oggy had to cover gray... 3 or 4 of our other defenders marking air

and it wasn't just in the moment, the entire possession we were short on that side and crowded on our right
Unfortunately...we have another 16 matches or so...that we will repeating this, Box....but , hey we have got to live with it until someone comes in,I really think that Johnson could be that strength defensively that we are missing. The present two choices have created fuck all going forward, at least Johnson can defend.
You must have nodded off when we scored our second. Masuaku had a very big hand in the build up to the goal.

And as an aside I think the criticism of Masuaku for Watford's equaliser from some is a bit wide of the mark. He was left covering two players because neither Lanzini, Yarmolenko or Anderson were making any effort to back track and help out.

That's not to say he's the long term answer at LB, but an improvement on Cresswell. I guess we'll see Johnson in the week so let's see how he does.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Neville Bartos » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 pm

Newmarket wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:40 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:42 pm


I think you're right. Haller is a very different kettle of fish to Arnautovic and Hernandez, so it could take a few more games before the rest of the team is really playing to his strengths going forward.
Considering he had very little preseason and this was just his second PL game, he looks a massive upgrade. His pass to Lanzini that lead to the penalty was excellent -- Lanzini should've buried it first time.
His instincts and finishing were brilliant too. And he seems a humble lad, saying he didn't play well, but scored a couple anyway. A bit of luck and he could've had a hat-trick and an assist, let's hope he plays that badly every week.
In defence I think we're suffering from the low budget, and sub £35m net is low. We could've done with a more seasoned CB, that C/DM we've needed for almost as long as we needed a striker, and a LB.
I get the feeling Husillos and Pellegrini just don't want to draft in temporary solutions and easy fixes.
From the players they've signed it seems they either want quality and/or potential, or they'd rather just save the money. No big wage veteran freebies, or last minute we just missed out excuses. Good Times, Imo.
Sounding , but without meaning to be , pedantic Nev .

And it is in reference to just a tiny bit of what is a very good post , but Haller had a perfectly good pre season mate .
He was playing in Preseason Friendlies for Frankfurt well before we signed him ;)
I love pedantry, mate. You carry on. :D
Fitness wise Haller's clearly up to snuff, I just meant he hadn't really had a lot of time to gel with our forward players. Same goes for Fornals and the Swiss lad.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Hammertime » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:11 pm

4 points in Aug with some attacking football being played! We have one FB who’s the fastest guy on the pitch which often gets him into attacking positions that he does fuck all with, but adds a certain security down that flank. We have another FB who is a liability as a defender but will probably have his fair share of assists this season! I say stick with both for a run of games and hope they’re strong points outweigh their negatives & experience will improve both.

Also think people are being a little harsh on Yarma. Yes Antonio should’ve probably started, but make no mistake, the Ukrainian is a class player & I think it wise that Pelle try and give him opportunities to get his legs back after being out of prem action for so long. Had Fredericks done anything with any of those through balls Yarma played him in on stride, we’d be a little more forgiving I feel. I know he’s not the fastest guy on the pitch, but he’s usually good in possession and a good passer of the ball.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by Whiskyman » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:48 pm

Hammertime wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:11 pm
4 points in Aug with some attacking football being played! We have one FB who’s the fastest guy on the pitch which often gets him into attacking positions that he does fuck all with, but adds a certain security down that flank. We have another FB who is a liability as a defender but will probably have his fair share of assists this season! I say stick with both for a run of games and hope they’re strong points outweigh their negatives & experience will improve both.

Also think people are being a little harsh on Yarma. Yes Antonio should’ve probably started, but make no mistake, the Ukrainian is a class player & I think it wise that Pelle try and give him opportunities to get his legs back after being out of prem action for so long. Had Fredericks done anything with any of those through balls Yarma played him in on stride, we’d be a little more forgiving I feel. I know he’s not the fastest guy on the pitch, but he’s usually good in possession and a good passer of the ball.
And his touch is far better than Antonio. I think had he been given the chance through on goal that Antonio squandered our margin of victory may have been more convincing.

Imo Antonio has a better "engine" but Yarmolenko is a far better footballer.
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Re: Watford vs West Ham Official Match Thread

Post by IronsForever » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:13 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:00 pm
andyginbrasil wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 am


Unfortunately...we have another 16 matches or so...that we will repeating this, Box....but , hey we have got to live with it until someone comes in,I really think that Johnson could be that strength defensively that we are missing. The present two choices have created fuck all going forward, at least Johnson can defend.
You must have nodded off when we scored our second. Masuaku had a very big hand in the build up to the goal.

And as an aside I think the criticism of Masuaku for Watford's equaliser from some is a bit wide of the mark. He was left covering two players because neither Lanzini, Yarmolenko or Anderson were making any effort to back track and help out.

That's not to say he's the long term answer at LB, but an improvement on Cresswell. I guess we'll see Johnson in the week so let's see how he does.
Masuaku needs to grow a big hand more often. We have seen what he can do but fore too long now he dithers and dallies with the ball and looks like he took a wrong turn somewhere in Romania.
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