How Quickly It Turns

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h69
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by h69 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:07 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:08 pm
Logically given our squad and results achieved it's not good enough. If someone like Eddie Howe was the manager could things be better ?

He does seem to wring the absolute maximum out of what he has available to him.

We should get somebody in who will get the maximum out of the ingredients while they are still fresh. And we should do it now.
I dont agree it is not good enough. We are about where we should be which is challenging for the Top 6. We have a miles better squad than a few years ago but so do teams like Everton, Watford and Wolves and they are behind us (Wolves prob because of Europa) so no panic.

Had Haller scuffed his shot and Rice not put his arms up we would be third/fourth so fine margins but we are doing fine.

As for Eddie Howe, I think his teams are dirty as well and it is a myth he is a great manager. He is in the right place at the right time but like Marco Silva I think he is overrated.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by BlackDiamond » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:50 pm

h69 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:07 pm
BlackDiamond wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:08 pm
Logically given our squad and results achieved it's not good enough. If someone like Eddie Howe was the manager could things be better ?

He does seem to wring the absolute maximum out of what he has available to him.

We should get somebody in who will get the maximum out of the ingredients while they are still fresh. And we should do it now.
I dont agree it is not good enough. We are about where we should be which is challenging for the Top 6. We have a miles better squad than a few years ago but so do teams like Everton, Watford and Wolves and they are behind us (Wolves prob because of Europa) so no panic.

Had Haller scuffed his shot and Rice not put his arms up we would be third/fourth so fine margins but we are doing fine.

As for Eddie Howe, I think his teams are dirty as well and it is a myth he is a great manager. He is in the right place at the right time but like Marco Silva I think he is overrated.
I'm not sure losing at home to Crystal Palace is fine margins.The difference in talent between the two is enormous in football capacities.

And this is obvious,because CP have a playing staff (80%) on their downward career trajectory.

We are not the West Ham who relied solely on the brilliance and effervescent contributions of Dimitri Payet to win games. We have purchased a handful of very talented individuals and we expect more from their work.

Clearly,their work is being directed,but if that direction is not yielding the results expected then resources are being misused. As is plainly evident
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by Taansend » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:48 pm

So if we went with 3 at the back what would your team be?

3-5-2 or is that too outdated now
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by h69 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:58 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:50 pm
h69 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:07 pm


I dont agree it is not good enough. We are about where we should be which is challenging for the Top 6. We have a miles better squad than a few years ago but so do teams like Everton, Watford and Wolves and they are behind us (Wolves prob because of Europa) so no panic.

Had Haller scuffed his shot and Rice not put his arms up we would be third/fourth so fine margins but we are doing fine.

As for Eddie Howe, I think his teams are dirty as well and it is a myth he is a great manager. He is in the right place at the right time but like Marco Silva I think he is overrated.
I'm not sure losing at home to Crystal Palace is fine margins.The difference in talent between the two is enormous in football capacities.
Yes maybe if you are playing football manager but as Norwich and Wolves showed Man City, football is far from predictable in one off games and I am glad of that.

I was at the game and it really was a fine margin as to who would win. Lanzini should have scored but was a bit sluggish with a shot, Haller missed a sitter that would have gone in if he had scuffed it, they almost scored and own goal whereas they scored a goal that was timed by millimeters to be onside (and took 10 mins to decide) and a pen because Dec raised his arm in a reflex action. They had chances and took them....sometimes it happens but they were no better than us. Had we had a bit of luck we would be third. That would be an overachievement if it were the end of the season but early on it happens...CP have also had a good start but the reason a league exists is that over 38 games, the cream normally rises but they are a decent side who will be mid table.

I think we are likely to finish anywhere from 5th to 9th but injuries, luck, form all contrive to make it a difficult prediction. I think that is where we are at present. 2 defeats from the first 7 games is perfectly reasonable and after the last 10 years I would have taken that prior to the season. We are not the invincibles.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by palerider » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 pm

Taansend wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:48 pm
So if we went with 3 at the back what would your team be?

3-5-2 or is that too outdated now
Assuming everyone's fit. And that there'll be no additions in January.


Fabianski

Balbuena
Diop
Ogbonna

Fredericks
Rice
Lanzini
Yarmalenko
Masuaku

Haller
Antonio

Tough on Noble and Cresswell but that's life. And this would only be for a handful of home games anyway against the likes of Burnley and Brighton.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by mkhammer » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:59 pm

palerider wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Taansend wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:48 pm
So if we went with 3 at the back what would your team be?

3-5-2 or is that too outdated now
Assuming everyone's fit. And that there'll be no additions in January.


Fabianski

Balbuena
Diop
Ogbonna

Fredericks
Rice
Lanzini
Yarmalenko
Masuaku

Haller
Antonio

Tough on Noble and Cresswell but that's life. And this would only be for a handful of home games anyway against the likes of Burnley and Brighton.
Think it's for me anyway being able to transition during a game...if you can't break someone
down or if you wanna tighten things up..
so...we could go Fred off for Jack...go to a 3 at back with Issa Oggy Cress...Jack joins
Nobes Rice Anderson Yarmo 5 across...we push Lanza up just behind Haller.
Play it as a 3-4-3 ...3-5-2 ..3-5-1-1....whatever, swings and roundabouts,all about being versatile
and having movement,think we over complicate the game at times.

Tighten a game up..Balbuena comes on for Lanza...push Fred and Cress up as WBs,pull
Anderson more central (Or do a Jack for Anderson as well) still have Yarmo and Haller more
forward...lots of little changes you can make.

I like the way Pellers setting up now,I'm not saying Start like this...we're building a bloody
good side...don't wanna fuck that up...but It's good to have other plays up your sleeve.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by Hammertime » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:46 pm

What seems obvious to me is how we need to keep Pam and/or Yarma up closer with Haller so he's not so isolated. With Pelle's system as it stands we're utilizing Rice's dominance by pushing Noble up behind the front 3 as another 10, while also bombing our fbs forward and requiring our wingers to help cover them. So in this system we see way to much of Pam and Yarma back in around our own box and not up around Haller.

Would it not make more sense to use the luxury of Rice to employ another dm cover to a the fb position. I know it's tantamount to mutiny suggesting dropping Noble, but if needs must, leave him up the pitch or leave him out, we just don't need he and Lanzini (or Wilshire) occupying the same area and no one covering Cresswell or Fredericks as they bomb forward too. If we'd got the ball hawking athletic midfielder we all knew we needed, I believe the defensive responsibilities of our front 3 would be mitigated against most opponents (save the the very best) and leave Haller with a supporting cast for more minutes of the game.

I see with our current squad why Pelle aint trusting Sanchez, Snoddy or Coventry to this role but how many seasons can we keep being ill-prepared in the middle of the park?
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by h69 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:46 am

palerider wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 pm
Taansend wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:48 pm
So if we went with 3 at the back what would your team be?

3-5-2 or is that too outdated now
Assuming everyone's fit. And that there'll be no additions in January.


Fabianski

Balbuena
Diop
Ogbonna

Fredericks
Rice
Lanzini
Yarmalenko
Masuaku

Haller
Antonio

Tough on Noble and Cresswell but that's life. And this would only be for a handful of home games anyway against the likes of Burnley and Brighton.
I am not a fan of 3-5-2 if I am honest s I would not play it but at present, I would not drop Noble. He has played well, I would rather drop Lanzini.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by palerider » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:46 pm

h69 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:46 am
palerider wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:15 pm


Assuming everyone's fit. And that there'll be no additions in January.


Fabianski

Balbuena
Diop
Ogbonna

Fredericks
Rice
Lanzini
Yarmalenko
Masuaku

Haller
Antonio

Tough on Noble and Cresswell but that's life. And this would only be for a handful of home games anyway against the likes of Burnley and Brighton.
I am not a fan of 3-5-2 if I am honest s I would not play it but at present, I would not drop Noble. He has played well, I would rather drop Lanzini.
As I've said. It's just for a few games each season where we have to break down a mass defence. MP needs to think on his feet and the players should be good enough to adapt even if it means changing the formation during a match.
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Re: How Quickly It Turns

Post by Whiskyman » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:06 pm

palerider wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:46 pm
h69 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:46 am


I am not a fan of 3-5-2 if I am honest s I would not play it but at present, I would not drop Noble. He has played well, I would rather drop Lanzini.
As I've said. It's just for a few games each season where we have to break down a mass defence. MP needs to think on his feet and the players should be good enough to adapt even if it means changing the formation during a match.
It's not rocket science is it ? If you need a goal you try to get players into more offensive positions. If you're defending a lead you get players into more defensive ones. OK that's over simplistic but fundamentally it's what happens. Imo Yarmolenko and Antonio, when fit, could operate further forward, effectively as a second striker, so it doesn't even need a radical restructuring of formation.

FFS these cunts, not just our cunts btw, only have to keep fit and train every week so surely they ought to be bright enough to be able to realise what needs to be done without being told by the coach every 30 seconds. Football today is almost as much about intelligence as it is skill. Look at N'Golo Kante as an example. He doesn't do wonderful things with the ball at his feet but, boy, watch the positions he takes up and the often very simple but very effective balls he plays. Gundogan at Man City is another in the same mould imo.
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