Whisk, I get the impression we are, more or less saying the same thing in different wordsWhiskyman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:07 pmTone. I suspect you still attend matches. I don't. So your perceptions are certainly more likely to be accurate that what I might think. But my point, and I think we fundamentally agree on the underlying issues, is that the persistent (as I see it), dewy eyed nostalgic whining about the move is actually deflecting from the salient issue, which is the basic and obvious fact the Dildo Brothers haven't a clue how to run a football club.ToneLoc wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:10 pm
Completely agree that the dire top to bottom state of the “football” is the catalyst to the unrest.
The stadium move clearly isn’t the catalyst otherwise where was that when things were going relatively well last season?
My point is that the stadium move becomes the iconic centre-piece for anti-board sentiment when the football, as often it does turns to shite.
I would say that I’m relatively in-touch with the current groundswell and from my viewpoint there’s at least as much anger at leaving Upton Park as there is our current league position. The latter appears to spur on the former.
Do I know this for certain? Of course not, none of us do.
Perhaps my earlier highlighted point was a little presumptuous
Whoever the owners are we cannot ever return to Upton Park. That is an undeniable fact. But it is also highly likely that, no matter who the next owners happen to be, they can hardly prove to be less competent than the present ones. And all I am saying is that business competency is the issue that should be focused on and not some stupid and pointless pining for a mythical golden age. FFS it's not that far back in time and we all know the club's history, apart from a brief spell between 1964 and 1980 and a "one off" in 85/86 has hardly been fucking golden. A fortress ? Upton Park never was that FFS. Any of us who have had season tickets over the past 20 or 30 years will happily attest to that.
Focus on the things that can be improved, not the things that are done and dusted.
But where we differ is that, in my view I see a raw and justified undercurrent of hatred & rage, initially fuelled by the onset of more piss-poor football that has reopened old wounds on the stadium move because that move is essentially tied to the results due to what the supporters feel they were "mis-sold".
The move issue springs up each time because people want to hold them to account over a chain of false promises and lies. So, I don't see how you can just remove the "move" from the equation.
If it were up to me, I would be using the stadium move as fuel to gain numbers, momentum & media attention but my actual agenda would be to "first fix the football" and then focus on other identity-based issues.
If the moans and groans were simply just about the running of the club and the football then I doubt much of this general momentum would've been gained and you and I wouldn't even be having this conversation.
There is a principal split in this whole affair which runs between those who's agenda is simply to harass them until they sell up and those who think this is unrealistic and want them to start running the club like a "football" club.
So, if you're in the first camp then the "move" and "sold a lie" type rhetoric will be all over your banners because it's a very simple, binary "in our out" position.
If you're in the second (which I would hazard a guess is where you are?)....then the more pragmatic "focus on what CAN be done" will be the order of the day.
For me? Either will do....perhaps that explains why I'm seeing it from both sides.