Hernandez

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Neville Bartos
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Neville Bartos » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:52 pm

Isn't Hernandez indicative of what's wrong with our recruitment policy?
He was signed not because hit fitted Bilic's preferred system, or even because he suited the general direction, or footballing philosophy, the club are looking to achieve, but because he has an excellent track record, and most importantly, he was a bargain.
We all knew £16m was a song. We all knew given the chances he'd score goals.
What we didn't count on was Bilic being so tactically inflexible as to make the signing a complete waste of resources. Nor did we imagine that Moyes would follow that exact same path.

For me the shortsightedness is utterly indefensible. We cannot afford to blow our budget, and commit resources to players that are either already redundant, or are made redundant by a change of coach.

If we're not going to play two up, he should be sold. But fuck me we need a good DoF to make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again.
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Down under mick
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Down under mick » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:03 pm

goodpost:)
Neville Bartos wrote:Isn't Hernandez indicative of what's wrong with our recruitment policy?
He was signed not because hit fitted Bilic's preferred system, or even because he suited the general direction, or footballing philosophy, the club are looking to achieve, but because he has an excellent track record, and most importantly, he was a bargain.
We all knew £16m was a song. We all knew given the chances he'd score goals.
What we didn't count on was Bilic being so tactically inflexible as to make the signing a complete waste of resources. Nor did we imagine that Moyes would follow that exact same path.

For me the shortsightedness is utterly indefensible. We cannot afford to blow our budget, and commit resources to players that are either already redundant, or are made redundant by a change of coach.

If we're not going to play two up, he should be sold. But fuck me we need a good DoF to make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again.
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h69
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Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:46 pm

BCHammer wrote:At least Moysie in his press conference acknowledges what the problem is - no balls into the box or in and around him.

Talking about it is one thing, but whats the bet he does nothing about it.


Funny how Arnie is managing to get the ball and put it in the net. That's 6 in 7 now isn't it ?
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deanox
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Re: Hernandez

Postby deanox » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:58 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:Isn't Hernandez indicative of what's wrong with our recruitment policy?
He was signed not because hit fitted Bilic's preferred system, or even because he suited the general direction, or footballing philosophy, the club are looking to achieve, but because he has an excellent track record, and most importantly, he was a bargain.
We all knew £16m was a song. We all knew given the chances he'd score goals.
What we didn't count on was Bilic being so tactically inflexible as to make the signing a complete waste of resources. Nor did we imagine that Moyes would follow that exact same path.

For me the shortsightedness is utterly indefensible. We cannot afford to blow our budget, and commit resources to players that are either already redundant, or are made redundant by a change of coach.

If we're not going to play two up, he should be sold. But fuck me we need a good DoF to make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again.

I applauded his signing, but regardless of style of play he’s a luxury player IMO. The game against a league 1 side in the cup summed up the guy to me. He can’t hold up the ball and couldn’t out run basically semi professional standard players.
Sorry to say he has to go to a not so challenging league, like here in the states to find his level.
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BCHammer
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Re: Hernandez

Postby BCHammer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:31 am

h69 wrote:
BCHammer wrote:At least Moysie in his press conference acknowledges what the problem is - no balls into the box or in and around him.

Talking about it is one thing, but whats the bet he does nothing about it.


Funny how Arnie is managing to get the ball and put it in the net. That's 6 in 7 now isn't it ?


Very different players. Chicharito is 5'9 and Arnie is 6'4. Arnie is built like a brick shithouse, Chicharito falls over in the wind. Arnie picks up the ball, runs, drives, bullies, chases down, harasses and makes things happen. Chicharito likes to wait in the box and pick up scraps. The cliche is poacher and fox in the box. And he has managed to score 189 goals in 465 games for clubs & country, or 0.41 per game. Arnie has scored 76 goals in 376 games or 0.2 per game. So the stats are clear who is the most prolific, and in the case of Chicharito on a bigger stage and probably via more sub appearances.

We knew what we were getting with both signings. We shouldnt be surprised with what they do. But you simply dont sign a player like Chicharito if you dont play to his strengths and provide him what he needs that has made him successful. As it seems we have something good going on with Arnie & Lanzini, Im OK with that for now and want to milk that cow until its dry. But its short sighted to think it is going to work in every game for the forseeable and we dont need any other options. But what do I know, I predicted a drab 0-0 today :D
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h69
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Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:56 am

BCHammer wrote:
h69 wrote:
BCHammer wrote:At least Moysie in his press conference acknowledges what the problem is - no balls into the box or in and around him.

Talking about it is one thing, but whats the bet he does nothing about it.


Funny how Arnie is managing to get the ball and put it in the net. That's 6 in 7 now isn't it ?


Very different players. Chicharito is 5'9 and Arnie is 6'4. Arnie is built like a brick shithouse, Chicharito falls over in the wind. Arnie picks up the ball, runs, drives, bullies, chases down, harasses and makes things happen. Chicharito likes to wait in the box and pick up scraps. The cliche is poacher and fox in the box. And he has managed to score 189 goals in 465 games for clubs & country, or 0.41 per game. Arnie has scored 76 goals in 376 games or 0.2 per game. So the stats are clear who is the most prolific, and in the case of Chicharito on a bigger stage and probably via more sub appearances.

We knew what we were getting with both signings. We shouldnt be surprised with what they do. But you simply dont sign a player like Chicharito if you dont play to his strengths and provide him what he needs that has made him successful. As it seems we have something good going on with Arnie & Lanzini, Im OK with that for now and want to milk that cow until its dry. But its short sighted to think it is going to work in every game for the forseeable and we dont need any other options. But what do I know, I predicted a drab 0-0 today :D


For me, Chicharito is a sub to put on when you are blitzing the oppos box and chasing a game. I have yet to see any evidence that he should be a starter in the Premier league. Not at Man United and not here.

As far as Arnie is concerned, yes....he has always been a talent but he needs an arm round him and Moyes clearly knows how to manage him....Bilic did not.
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BCHammer
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Re: Hernandez

Postby BCHammer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:18 pm

Express reports Chicharito "demands" move away

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... el-Lanzini

No smoke without fire. Dont blame the lad. Like hiring a bloke to be a warehouse manager and you have him in the office looking down at it through the window and hes occasionally allowed to bring them their tea and help out a little when Boris the cleaner who normally does it is off sick
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Hammertime
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Hammertime » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:10 pm

BCHammer wrote:
h69 wrote:
BCHammer wrote:At least Moysie in his press conference acknowledges what the problem is - no balls into the box or in and around him.

Talking about it is one thing, but whats the bet he does nothing about it.


Funny how Arnie is managing to get the ball and put it in the net. That's 6 in 7 now isn't it ?


Very different players. Chicharito is 5'9 and Arnie is 6'4. Arnie is built like a brick shithouse, Chicharito falls over in the wind. Arnie picks up the ball, runs, drives, bullies, chases down, harasses and makes things happen. Chicharito likes to wait in the box and pick up scraps. The cliche is poacher and fox in the box. And he has managed to score 189 goals in 465 games for clubs & country, or 0.41 per game. Arnie has scored 76 goals in 376 games or 0.2 per game. So the stats are clear who is the most prolific, and in the case of Chicharito on a bigger stage and probably via more sub appearances.

We knew what we were getting with both signings. We shouldnt be surprised with what they do. But you simply dont sign a player like Chicharito if you dont play to his strengths and provide him what he needs that has made him successful. As it seems we have something good going on with Arnie & Lanzini, Im OK with that for now and want to milk that cow until its dry. But its short sighted to think it is going to work in every game for the forseeable and we dont need any other options. But what do I know, I predicted a drab 0-0 today :D


Not a valid comparison as Arnie hasn't typically been played as an out n out striker, where as Hernandez (except under Bilic) has. I'm willing to bet Arnie's assist ratio is much greater than the little pea's and this whole discussion, coupled with Moye's preference of a physical No.9 seems like he'll never figure out how to use our luxury mexican!
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h69
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Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:57 am

Hammertime wrote:
BCHammer wrote:
h69 wrote:
Funny how Arnie is managing to get the ball and put it in the net. That's 6 in 7 now isn't it ?


Very different players. Chicharito is 5'9 and Arnie is 6'4. Arnie is built like a brick shithouse, Chicharito falls over in the wind. Arnie picks up the ball, runs, drives, bullies, chases down, harasses and makes things happen. Chicharito likes to wait in the box and pick up scraps. The cliche is poacher and fox in the box. And he has managed to score 189 goals in 465 games for clubs & country, or 0.41 per game. Arnie has scored 76 goals in 376 games or 0.2 per game. So the stats are clear who is the most prolific, and in the case of Chicharito on a bigger stage and probably via more sub appearances.

We knew what we were getting with both signings. We shouldnt be surprised with what they do. But you simply dont sign a player like Chicharito if you dont play to his strengths and provide him what he needs that has made him successful. As it seems we have something good going on with Arnie & Lanzini, Im OK with that for now and want to milk that cow until its dry. But its short sighted to think it is going to work in every game for the forseeable and we dont need any other options. But what do I know, I predicted a drab 0-0 today :D


Not a valid comparison as Arnie hasn't typically been played as an out n out striker, where as Hernandez (except under Bilic) has. I'm willing to bet Arnie's assist ratio is much greater than the little pea's and this whole discussion, coupled with Moye's preference of a physical No.9 seems like he'll never figure out how to use our luxury mexican!


Arnie is very difficult to get off the ball, skillfull, quick and powerful.....defenses are terrified of him.
Hernandez goes down with the slightest touch, is scared of League 1 players, isn't particularly quick and is really a one trick pony.

I know who I would rather have.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Whiskyman » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:02 am

h69 wrote:
Hammertime wrote:
BCHammer wrote:
Very different players. Chicharito is 5'9 and Arnie is 6'4. Arnie is built like a brick shithouse, Chicharito falls over in the wind. Arnie picks up the ball, runs, drives, bullies, chases down, harasses and makes things happen. Chicharito likes to wait in the box and pick up scraps. The cliche is poacher and fox in the box. And he has managed to score 189 goals in 465 games for clubs & country, or 0.41 per game. Arnie has scored 76 goals in 376 games or 0.2 per game. So the stats are clear who is the most prolific, and in the case of Chicharito on a bigger stage and probably via more sub appearances.

We knew what we were getting with both signings. We shouldnt be surprised with what they do. But you simply dont sign a player like Chicharito if you dont play to his strengths and provide him what he needs that has made him successful. As it seems we have something good going on with Arnie & Lanzini, Im OK with that for now and want to milk that cow until its dry. But its short sighted to think it is going to work in every game for the forseeable and we dont need any other options. But what do I know, I predicted a drab 0-0 today :D


Not a valid comparison as Arnie hasn't typically been played as an out n out striker, where as Hernandez (except under Bilic) has. I'm willing to bet Arnie's assist ratio is much greater than the little pea's and this whole discussion, coupled with Moye's preference of a physical No.9 seems like he'll never figure out how to use our luxury mexican!


Arnie is very difficult to get off the ball, skillfull, quick and powerful.....defenses are terrified of him.
Hernandez goes down with the slightest touch, is scared of League 1 players, isn't particularly quick and is really a one trick pony.

I know who I would rather have.


He is a one trick pony. A poacher who will score goals if given the service but will do little else. In other words not really a Moyes player. With the right service he will score goals but we don't really have enough ability throughout the squad to accommodate and carry a luxury player. Which is why I don't understand the clamour from some quarters for us to bring in Batshuayi who looks as if he is cut from exactly the same cloth. I've seen him in 3 TV games recently, playing with better players than we have, and, frankly, have not been at all impressed. Swerve imo. Another Zaza. Totally unsuited to a club with our limited creative options.
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