Hernandez

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BlackDiamond
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Re: Hernandez

Postby BlackDiamond » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:57 pm

He doesn't suit the David Moyes tactical plan which is basically:

Everybody behind the ball and the occasional counter attack or kick the ball with gusto aerially in the general vicinity of AC. That's it, the nutshell version.

The counter attack is spearheaded by Antonio and Aunatovich operating as torpedo boats from the flanks. And you don't need isolated strikers in that system. Nor do you need intricate midfield play makers because they don't have any strikers to look for anyway.

So the football philosophy is containment and strike when/if you can or must. That's it. Any idea of football as entertainment is not considered.

Funny way to keep people happy...but it pays the rent I suppose
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Whiskyman
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Whiskyman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:35 pm

h69 wrote:
BillyDWhizz wrote:I banged on for an absolute age about how we should sign Hernandez. So we sign him and then deploy him in a totally unsuitable role and then compound things by employing the one manager in the world who doesn't think he's any good! Only at West Ham. Unmitigated disaster.

I wish him all the very best wherever he ends up. Deserved so much more with us but has been treated appallingly by our bunch of footballing Neanderthals. Any other team in the League and he'd be in double figures by now.


Hes just not good enough to play in the Premier league......I dont understand where this myth comes from that he can be top class here.


I have to disagree. It was only 2 years ago he was good enough to be playing, albeit usually as a so called impact substitute, for the biggest club in England and then went on to play for, arguably, the biggest club in world football. Those two clubs don't sign too many duds, do they ? Tony Cottee, one of my all time favourites, is probably the nearest player we've had in style to Hernandez and he would have struggled in the role we have tried to use Hernandez in. So I can agree with your doubts that he would ever be top class in our colours. Although I was expecting more from him tbh I wouldn't blame him totally for the lack of end product.

I have 2 concerns. In fairness to Moyes he didn't sign Hernandez so can't be blamed for bringing a player in unsuited to the game plan he prefers, but the fact remains he can't play in that role. Also Sakho appears to be on his way out which leaves us desperately short of striking options, unless, of course, someone comes in. But as we know even adequate strikers are a very expensive commodities and good ones are probably well out of our self imposed transfer ceiling.
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Hammertime
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Hammertime » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:35 pm

h69 wrote:
Hammertime wrote:The really sad part is that while always looking for elusive goal scorer, our board failed to attract the likes of Laccazette, Batty Boy or any of the other 20-30 mill plus strikers out there. They got a cut-rate deal on Hernandez and agreed to pay the wage. It seemed the plan was then to improve the midfield with the signing of Carvalho, which was perceived as the move that would change Bilic's style and allow are more attacking flow and take us off the back foot.

Well skip forward 6 months and our midfield is so shit, our strikers can't get on the pitch unless they're 6'4" or a midfielder that knows where the goal is. So, we're seriously going to go and shuffle our forward deck before we address the real issue? I understand the new manager has to implement his new system, but if we sell Hernandez now, it really goes to show how limited Moyes is in his vision.


Both Lacazette and Batty Boy are showing that the PL is very different to Europe. Thank fuck we didn't pay out the 30-40M for them......as thart was the only thing that was attracting them.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... at-arsenal


I actually disagree with the article, watching Lacazette this season, I think he is suited to this league, shows good strength and footwork and holds the ball up well. No doubt there's an adjustment period for many in the Prem and Batshuayi isn't getting the time required to adjust (although has scored some big goals for them). I think both are quality and will prove so if given the chance.
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h69
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Location: Ruislip, Middlesex

Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:58 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
h69 wrote:
BillyDWhizz wrote:I banged on for an absolute age about how we should sign Hernandez. So we sign him and then deploy him in a totally unsuitable role and then compound things by employing the one manager in the world who doesn't think he's any good! Only at West Ham. Unmitigated disaster.

I wish him all the very best wherever he ends up. Deserved so much more with us but has been treated appallingly by our bunch of footballing Neanderthals. Any other team in the League and he'd be in double figures by now.


Hes just not good enough to play in the Premier league......I dont understand where this myth comes from that he can be top class here.


I have to disagree. It was only 2 years ago he was good enough to be playing, albeit usually as a so called impact substitute, for the biggest club in England and then went on to play for, arguably, the biggest club in world football. Those two clubs don't sign too many duds, do they ? Tony Cottee, one of my all time favourites, is probably the nearest player we've had in style to Hernandez and he would have struggled in the role we have tried to use Hernandez in. So I can agree with your doubts that he would ever be top class in our colours. Although I was expecting more from him tbh I wouldn't blame him totally for the lack of end product.

I have 2 concerns. In fairness to Moyes he didn't sign Hernandez so can't be blamed for bringing a player in unsuited to the game plan he prefers, but the fact remains he can't play in that role. Also Sakho appears to be on his way out which leaves us desperately short of striking options, unless, of course, someone comes in. But as we know even adequate strikers are a very expensive commodities and good ones are probably well out of our self imposed transfer ceiling.


He was exactly that....an impact sub....he is not good enough to start in the PL.....in Europe maybe where it is far less physical but then RM also loaned Julien Faubert
Last edited by h69 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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h69
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Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:01 pm

Hammertime wrote:
h69 wrote:
Hammertime wrote:The really sad part is that while always looking for elusive goal scorer, our board failed to attract the likes of Laccazette, Batty Boy or any of the other 20-30 mill plus strikers out there. They got a cut-rate deal on Hernandez and agreed to pay the wage. It seemed the plan was then to improve the midfield with the signing of Carvalho, which was perceived as the move that would change Bilic's style and allow are more attacking flow and take us off the back foot.

Well skip forward 6 months and our midfield is so shit, our strikers can't get on the pitch unless they're 6'4" or a midfielder that knows where the goal is. So, we're seriously going to go and shuffle our forward deck before we address the real issue? I understand the new manager has to implement his new system, but if we sell Hernandez now, it really goes to show how limited Moyes is in his vision.


Both Lacazette and Batty Boy are showing that the PL is very different to Europe. Thank fuck we didn't pay out the 30-40M for them......as thart was the only thing that was attracting them.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... at-arsenal


I actually disagree with the article, watching Lacazette this season, I think he is suited to this league, shows good strength and footwork and holds the ball up well. No doubt there's an adjustment period for many in the Prem and Batshuayi isn't getting the time required to adjust (although has scored some big goals for them). I think both are quality and will prove so if given the chance.


But they wont get the chance, not in the PL......thats my point. The English PL is physical and requires players to make an instant impact. We, as fans never give anyone a chance and expect instant success......look at the abuse Arnie got when he first got to West Ham. Same with Arthur to a certain extent.

Imagine all the melting on this forum if we had spent 40M on Lacazette and he went 8 games without scoring.
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h69
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Re: Hernandez

Postby h69 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:10 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:He doesn't suit the David Moyes tactical plan which is basically:

Everybody behind the ball and the occasional counter attack or kick the ball with gusto aerially in the general vicinity of AC. That's it, the nutshell version.

The counter attack is spearheaded by Antonio and Aunatovich operating as torpedo boats from the flanks. And you don't need isolated strikers in that system. Nor do you need intricate midfield play makers because they don't have any strikers to look for anyway.

So the football philosophy is containment and strike when/if you can or must. That's it. Any idea of football as entertainment is not considered.

Funny way to keep people happy...but it pays the rent I suppose


I dont agree with that. Football or no football, he could not outpace a Shrewsbury center back on Saturday even though he had a couple of yards head start so he doesnt have enough pace for our league, he cant hold the ball up, is too small to head the ball and has no strength to stay on his feet so to be honest he is only going to score goals from poaching tap ins from defensive mistakes. Even then, his scuffed finish at Bournemouth was poor and we were fortunate Begovic was so poor that day. I dont see what he offers to be honest.

Cottee was quick both on the pitch and in his head and had a great low center of gravity meaning he was hard to knock off the ball. There really is no comparison.

As far as AC goes, I believe the club have said they will look at offers for Hernandez, Sakho, Carroll and Ayew and that Moyes wants to completely change the forwards. JH is more likely to leave in July but if we get a good offer then I am sure we would sell him.

I see we are linked with Smolov today but we will be linked with every striker in the world now.
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Newmarket
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Newmarket » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 pm

andyginbrasil wrote:If he goes, and I hope he doesn't, what are other transfer targets going to think of our club? Top class players can't get in the team through no fault of their own, the system we play doesn't suit them, here for 6 months and then put up for sale. Look at the history over the last 2 seasons, how many of our buys or loans now play for the club? Surely this must influence their decision to sign for us? I for one can understand why we cannot attract big names to our club. Is there something behind the scenes that is effecting them or maybe everything they were promised by the board when signing has proved to be blatant lies? I don't know .....I am not very confident in this window we can attract the calibre of player we so desperately need....and I mean desperately!!!!


If you go back 12 months , substitute the word “Hernandez” with “Calleri” at the top of the thread and copy and paste .

I agree with you 100%
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terrya1965
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Re: Hernandez

Postby terrya1965 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:30 pm

andyginbrasil wrote:If he goes, and I hope he doesn't, what are other transfer targets going to think of our club? Top class players can't get in the team through no fault of their own, the system we play doesn't suit them, here for 6 months and then put up for sale. Look at the history over the last 2 seasons, how many of our buys or loans now play for the club? Surely this must influence their decision to sign for us? I for one can understand why we cannot attract big names to our club. Is there something behind the scenes that is effecting them or maybe everything they were promised by the board when signing has proved to be blatant lies? I don't know .....I am not very confident in this window we can attract the calibre of player we so desperately need....and I mean desperately!!!!


Nearly every bloody player that has signed since the start of Bilic`s reign has left.The spine of the team is still Allardyce's.
What does that tell you?
It`s tells you the manager can`t be signing the players and that knob Chairman of our is.
I have never known so many players to sign in a 2 and half period under Bilic that have all been sold on.
It`s a joke!
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mkhammer
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Re: Hernandez

Postby mkhammer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:02 pm

BCHammer wrote:I would like to see Arthur & Cress learn to cross a ball into the box more than once a game before we give up on him...

Ive given up any hope of Cheik supplying anything through the middle. Hopefully he can be replaced in the coming days.


Agree BC
Been driving me insane,last 12 months or so, our crossing is the worst I've seen from any
team anywhere,its absolutely shit.
I can partly defend AC cos of this,can probably count on one hand the amount of decent crosses
he's had this season...that is F.in terrible

Cress and Lanzini main culprits especially Cress...
Makes me speechless at times AC on the pitch and we can't put a ball in for shit..Unfuckinbeleivable

This actually makes angrier than our crap MF at the moment,might find some excuses for that,
but there is no excuse's when a professional footballer can't cross a ball.
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Hammertime
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Re: Hernandez

Postby Hammertime » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:12 pm

h69 wrote:
Hammertime wrote:
h69 wrote:
Both Lacazette and Batty Boy are showing that the PL is very different to Europe. Thank fuck we didn't pay out the 30-40M for them......as thart was the only thing that was attracting them.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... at-arsenal


I actually disagree with the article, watching Lacazette this season, I think he is suited to this league, shows good strength and footwork and holds the ball up well. No doubt there's an adjustment period for many in the Prem and Batshuayi isn't getting the time required to adjust (although has scored some big goals for them). I think both are quality and will prove so if given the chance.


But they wont get the chance, not in the PL......thats my point. The English PL is physical and requires players to make an instant impact. We, as fans never give anyone a chance and expect instant success......look at the abuse Arnie got when he first got to West Ham. Same with Arthur to a certain extent.

Imagine all the melting on this forum if we had spent 40M on Lacazette and he went 8 games without scoring.


I can totally imagine all the knee jerking when a player doesn't settle quick enough for results, I see it all the time and I'm constantly gob-smacked by it. I do understand if the money involved is Pogba or Lukaku ridiculous, then little patience will be excerised, but I honestly think both these players should be given more time.
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