What is our next level?

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Doombar
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby Doombar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:51 am

Doombar wrote:
eskimo joe wrote:
But that's later, the reality now is we are only looking at the small nucleus of our squad and seeing it as the team as a whole. In reality, as I believe, we have a squad that is patched up with old war dogs and loanees and would find it difficult to sustain a place in the top 8.


The only way forward is a major clear out and a 200 mill war chess to make up for all the past years underachievements
with 25-50 mill players, this won't happen. they will cherry pick from relegated teams and best of Championship players.
At some point, they will sell up but a premier league team worth more in players will justify there 650 mill price tag.
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dagenhamdave
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby dagenhamdave » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:51 am

Sadly, I think David Moyes is our level. If he stays then more of the same next season.
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eskimo joe
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby eskimo joe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:05 am

Doombar wrote:
eskimo joe wrote:
But that's later, the reality now is we are only looking at the small nucleus of our squad and seeing it as the team as a whole. In reality, as I believe, we have a squad that is patched up with old war dogs and loanees and would find it difficult to sustain a place in the top 8.


The only way forward is a major clear out and a 200 mill war chess to make up for all the past years underachievements
with 25-50 mill players, this won't happen. they will cherry pick from relegated teams and best of Championship players.
At some point, they will sell up but a premier league team worth more in players will justify there 650 mill price tag.


I think the 650 mil price tag is far too exaggerated and unrealistic and is only likely to have a remote chance of fetching that if Sullivan invests as you say in high profile players. Personally I think that figure was bandied around by Billy Bullshitter himself when he mentioned turning down an offer of that sum by Red Bull

One thing is evident though, we do need a clear out.
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palerider
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby palerider » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:07 am

I genuinely believe that with the shysters in charge, the next level will be the Championship. I don't think it will be this season, but for me it's just a matter of time.

If you look at the teams this season in the PL who failed to invest meaningfully last Summer and in January, four of them, not including us, are languishing near the bottom. West Brom, Stoke, Palace and Southampton.

I've not included promoted teams as it's a different issue. But Brighton have recruited well and although Huddersfield and the Toon are still in the mire, they have every chance of staying up. I thought that two games ago Huddersfield were nailed-on to drop but they're doing all they can to prove me wrong.

In a nutshell, if you stand still, you're overtaken. West Brom are doomed. I think the remaining two places will be between Huddersfield and the other three teams I've mentioned. If Palace get the cheat fit in time, I reckon they could just be safe. Although they'll probably prove me wrong by beating Spurs without him today.

But back to West Ham. We stood still last Summer. Arnie was a great signing and with the right supply, so was Hernandez. But you need double that every season now to push on. And of course Bilic (lovely man), sanctioned denuding the squad to the extent that with a few injuries we were fucked. Or maybe he was told to in order to balance the books. We'll never know.

I think we have enough to stay up this time round but who honestly believes the shysters will spend decent money in the Summer ? To get to that higher level you have to buy a couple of £40 million players. It's crazy money but it is what it is. You also have to have knowledgeable contacts across the globe recommending hungry young players at an affordable price to bolster your squad. Statler and Waldorf won't be part of that. They'll have a net spend among the lowest in the league and look for a couple of high-profile free transfers, probably players in the autumn of their careers looking for a last payday. And maybe a loan or two. It's what they do and what they've always done. The Payet season was an exception.

But the sides around us will because to survive in the PL you have to, and With Wolves looking odds-on to get promoted with big spending power along with what looks like two other traditionally big clubs, don't bank on the three promoted sides struggling next term.

Sullivan and Gold are a cancer. A couple of geriatric barrow-boys who got lucky when the OS was up for grabs. Fleecing Joe public and decent West Ham fans to line their own pockets.

Until they fuck off we're heading in one direction. It just depends on the speed of the train.

On March 10th, tell them.
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eskimo joe
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby eskimo joe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:18 am

palerider wrote:I genuinely believe that with the shysters in charge, the next level will be the Championship. I don't think it will be this season, but for me it's just a matter of time.

If you look at the teams this season in the PL who failed to invest meaningfully last Summer and in January, four of them, not including us, are languishing near the bottom. West Brom, Stoke, Palace and Southampton.

I've not included promoted teams as it's a different issue. But Brighton have recruited well and although Huddersfield and the Toon are still in the mire, they have every chance of staying up. I thought that two games ago Huddersfield were nailed-on to drop but they're doing all they can to prove me wrong.

In a nutshell, if you stand still, you're overtaken. West Brom are doomed. I think the remaining two places will be between Huddersfield and the other three teams I've mentioned. If Palace get the cheat fit in time, I reckon they could just be safe. Although they'll probably prove me wrong by beating Spurs without him today.

But back to West Ham. We stood still last Summer. Arnie was a great signing and with the right supply, so was Hernandez. But you need double that every season now to push on. And of course Bilic (lovely man), sanctioned denuding the squad to the extent that with a few injuries we were fucked. Or maybe he was told to in order to balance the books. We'll never know.

I think we have enough to stay up this time round but who honestly believes the shysters will spend decent money in the Summer ? To get to that higher level you have to buy a couple of £40 million players. It's crazy money but it is what it is. You also have to have knowledgeable contacts across the globe recommending hungry young players at an affordable price to bolster your squad. Statler and Waldorf won't be part of that. They'll have a net spend among the lowest in the league and look for a couple of high-profile free transfers, probably players in the autumn of their careers looking for a last payday. And maybe a loan or two. It's what they do and what they've always done. The Payet season was an exception.

But the sides around us will because to survive in the PL you have to, and With Wolves looking odds-on to get promoted with big spending power along with what looks like two other traditionally big clubs, don't bank on the three promoted sides struggling next term.

Sullivan and Gold are a cancer. A couple of geriatric barrow-boys who got lucky when the OS was up for grabs. Fleecing Joe public and decent West Ham fans to line their own pockets.

Until they fuck off we're heading in one direction. It just depends on the speed of the train.

On March 10th, tell them.


Just a question Pale, how was the Payet season an exception other than it was one of the rare occasions where we had a good one.? They didn't really splash out and got lucky. But maybe I am being a shyte cause I hate the snidey toad.
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palerider
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby palerider » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:28 am

eskimo joe wrote:
palerider wrote:I genuinely believe that with the shysters in charge, the next level will be the Championship. I don't think it will be this season, but for me it's just a matter of time.

If you look at the teams this season in the PL who failed to invest meaningfully last Summer and in January, four of them, not including us, are languishing near the bottom. West Brom, Stoke, Palace and Southampton.

I've not included promoted teams as it's a different issue. But Brighton have recruited well and although Huddersfield and the Toon are still in the mire, they have every chance of staying up. I thought that two games ago Huddersfield were nailed-on to drop but they're doing all they can to prove me wrong.

In a nutshell, if you stand still, you're overtaken. West Brom are doomed. I think the remaining two places will be between Huddersfield and the other three teams I've mentioned. If Palace get the cheat fit in time, I reckon they could just be safe. Although they'll probably prove me wrong by beating Spurs without him today.

But back to West Ham. We stood still last Summer. Arnie was a great signing and with the right supply, so was Hernandez. But you need double that every season now to push on. And of course Bilic (lovely man), sanctioned denuding the squad to the extent that with a few injuries we were fucked. Or maybe he was told to in order to balance the books. We'll never know.

I think we have enough to stay up this time round but who honestly believes the shysters will spend decent money in the Summer ? To get to that higher level you have to buy a couple of £40 million players. It's crazy money but it is what it is. You also have to have knowledgeable contacts across the globe recommending hungry young players at an affordable price to bolster your squad. Statler and Waldorf won't be part of that. They'll have a net spend among the lowest in the league and look for a couple of high-profile free transfers, probably players in the autumn of their careers looking for a last payday. And maybe a loan or two. It's what they do and what they've always done. The Payet season was an exception.

But the sides around us will because to survive in the PL you have to, and With Wolves looking odds-on to get promoted with big spending power along with what looks like two other traditionally big clubs, don't bank on the three promoted sides struggling next term.

Sullivan and Gold are a cancer. A couple of geriatric barrow-boys who got lucky when the OS was up for grabs. Fleecing Joe public and decent West Ham fans to line their own pockets.

Until they fuck off we're heading in one direction. It just depends on the speed of the train.

On March 10th, tell them.


Just a question Pale, how was the Payet season an exception other than it was one of the rare occasions where we had a good one.? They didn't really splash out and got lucky. But maybe I am being a shyte cause I hate the snidey toad.

Yes Joe, it was a good season. As for Payet, many clubs knew about him but wouldn't take the risk. We did and it worked out just dandy. i can't criticise them for that although he was relatively inexpensive surprisingly.

But that was now two seasons ago. And the great start we had under Shrek with Sakho and Valencia before it hit the buffers is now four seasons ago.

You weren't there, but a few of us met in a Stratford pub the Summer after that great season, primarily to find a new drinking hole or two (we stayed all afternoon in the same boozer), but also to discuss the future. All was rosy. With Payet and the new striker we were promised it was Champions League, no problem. Gonzo was convinced we'd sign Lacazette I seem to remember.

We signed Simone Zaza.

On loan.

Leicester winning the league in our 'Payet season' moved the goalposts. While praising them publicly, privately, managers and owners in the usual top 6 were cursing the upstarts and making damn sure it never happened again with even more spending. It's when the shit got serious and when the shysters' arse went.
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mkhammer
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby mkhammer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:34 am

eskimo joe wrote:
mkhammer wrote:Yeah so many people,that maybe or maybe not be ITK,not saying for one minute some of them aren't,
but some of them are more so than others,so tend to read and forget if I'm honest.....
I listen and acknowledge the guys on here and mates....that's it..
But that piece in theory does makes sense..

To me the present Squad when all fit and firing...under Moyes,starting the season fresh,not
straight away under pressure with "Must Win" games in a relegation battle...
would easily finish in top half...easily...knocking round round 7th/8th,and a lot closer to the
top 6 than Burnley and Leicester are now tho....fully confident on that..

But any higher we need.. not a clear out, but a lot of changes,and I include players that I love
dearly....But...
That's where serious proper investment comes in,cos we would need to be spending in the
region of 120/130 Mill just to even try and break into top 6....we all know that's not
happening.

Moyes WILL get us to 7th 8th,that's the best we are ever gonna achieve with present owners..
Have to be realistic....


You don't think we need to clear out some players?! I could name a few without thinking and casting aside any sentiment and if you want to progress.

Collins..love the guy and his attitude but on his last days.

Noble... As above

Zabaleta... Great professional too slow.

Carroll...waste of bench space

That's just 4 who from the players we own and imo are past their sell by date.

Add to that the ones we have loaned and either wont buy or have yet to decide and the 2 or three vacant spaces in the 25 man squad then that's over a third of the squad.

Then there are those others I would like to see improved on. But that's my own personal opinion.



That's exactly what I said Joe the present squad when fit gets us 7th 8th,any higher
we need changes....and the guys you mention as much as it hurts would have to step back.
I also believe Kouyate..Obiang..(Reid)..Maybe...would need to be replaced.

TBH honest,having a decent season but Oggy,is not nailed on for a start for me either..
neither is Cresswell..
So prob is getting near a clear out I Spose.. :lol:

AC s a no brainer....we desperately need him off the wage bill,apart from anything else...

But the Investment isn't gonna be coming,if we unload these guys....
Like for like maybe but not better..
So I'm putting my faith in Moyes,hoping he is able to replace some of these guys,without
having the big bucks to back him up....Not an easy job...

But to be honest I'm happy with 6/7/8 finishes......Don't really want a top 4 finish every year
knocking on the door is fine with me....
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punkrockhammer
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby punkrockhammer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 am

eskimo joe wrote:
palerider wrote:I genuinely believe that with the shysters in charge, the next level will be the Championship. I don't think it will be this season, but for me it's just a matter of time.

If you look at the teams this season in the PL who failed to invest meaningfully last Summer and in January, four of them, not including us, are languishing near the bottom. West Brom, Stoke, Palace and Southampton.

I've not included promoted teams as it's a different issue. But Brighton have recruited well and although Huddersfield and the Toon are still in the mire, they have every chance of staying up. I thought that two games ago Huddersfield were nailed-on to drop but they're doing all they can to prove me wrong.

In a nutshell, if you stand still, you're overtaken. West Brom are doomed. I think the remaining two places will be between Huddersfield and the other three teams I've mentioned. If Palace get the cheat fit in time, I reckon they could just be safe. Although they'll probably prove me wrong by beating Spurs without him today.

But back to West Ham. We stood still last Summer. Arnie was a great signing and with the right supply, so was Hernandez. But you need double that every season now to push on. And of course Bilic (lovely man), sanctioned denuding the squad to the extent that with a few injuries we were fucked. Or maybe he was told to in order to balance the books. We'll never know.

I think we have enough to stay up this time round but who honestly believes the shysters will spend decent money in the Summer ? To get to that higher level you have to buy a couple of £40 million players. It's crazy money but it is what it is. You also have to have knowledgeable contacts across the globe recommending hungry young players at an affordable price to bolster your squad. Statler and Waldorf won't be part of that. They'll have a net spend among the lowest in the league and look for a couple of high-profile free transfers, probably players in the autumn of their careers looking for a last payday. And maybe a loan or two. It's what they do and what they've always done. The Payet season was an exception.

But the sides around us will because to survive in the PL you have to, and With Wolves looking odds-on to get promoted with big spending power along with what looks like two other traditionally big clubs, don't bank on the three promoted sides struggling next term.

Sullivan and Gold are a cancer. A couple of geriatric barrow-boys who got lucky when the OS was up for grabs. Fleecing Joe public and decent West Ham fans to line their own pockets.

Until they fuck off we're heading in one direction. It just depends on the speed of the train.

On March 10th, tell them.


Just a question Pale, how was the Payet season an exception other than it was one of the rare occasions where we had a good one.? They didn't really splash out and got lucky. But maybe I am being a shyte cause I hate the snidey toad.


I don’t hate Payet, he was one of the main reasons we had the most enjoyable season for a long time

But it appeared he was lied to or saw through the bullshit after the window closed. He could’ve gone about his move a different way but he was still our best performer even when he was sulking

If the club had any fucking foresight we could’ve been watching him put goals on a plate for Hernandez and Arnautovic, although he was probably signed as a Payet replacement despite playing as a striker

As for next level, it’s Football League
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eskimo joe
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby eskimo joe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:53 am

punkrockhammer wrote:
eskimo joe wrote:
Just a question Pale, how was the Payet season an exception other than it was one of the rare occasions where we had a good one.? They didn't really splash out and got lucky. But maybe I am being a shyte cause I hate the snidey toad.


I don’t hate Payet, he was one of the main reasons we had the most enjoyable season for a long time

But it appeared he was lied to or saw through the bullshit after the window closed. He could’ve gone about his move a different way but he was still our best performer even when he was sulking

If the club had any fucking foresight we could’ve been watching him put goals on a plate for Hernandez and Arnautovic, although he was probably signed as a Payet replacement despite playing as a striker

As for next level, it’s Football League


Sorry i should have been clearer, it was Sullivan i was referring to.
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Newmarket
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Re: What is our next level?

Postby Newmarket » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:54 am

3413 wrote:
mkhammer wrote:Yeah so many people,that maybe or maybe not be ITK,not saying for one minute some of them aren't,
but some of them are more so than others,so tend to read and forget if I'm honest.....
I listen and acknowledge the guys on here and mates....that's it..
But that piece in theory does makes sense..

To me the present Squad when all fit and firing...under Moyes,starting the season fresh,not
straight away under pressure with "Must Win" games in a relegation battle...
would easily finish in top half...easily...knocking round round 7th/8th,and a lot closer to the
top 6 than Burnley and Leicester are now tho....fully confident on that..

But any higher we need.. not a clear out, but a lot of changes,and I include players that I love
dearly....But...
That's where serious proper investment comes in,cos we would need to be spending in the
region of 120/130 Mill just to even try and break into top 6....we all know that's not
happening.

Moyes WILL get us to 7th 8th,that's the best we are ever gonna achieve with present owners..
Have to be realistic....



“easily”

i am genuinely amused i am genuinely amused i am genuinely amused i am genuinely amused


I’m sorry MK but I kind of have to agree with the Numerical one here ...

Not trying to be negative or anything , honest , but sometimes your blind optimism makes me chuckle a tad .

It’ll take a hell of a lot more investment than that to get us up there , and a more innovative manager .

We are what we are and I’m certain that if they’d got rid of the nice fella last May and brought the Messiah in then we would be exactly where we are now , maybe even worse off .

I’ve only seen the MOTD highlights but yesterday seems to have went as expected by most of us .

You only have to look at the lack of ANY pace and the age of our defenders to see that we need a complete clear out and to start from scratch .

But we all know now how difficult it is to incorporate the dozen + new players into our squad that we need .

We tried it 18 months ago with ordinary players and we saw what happened there .

The sustained investment needed over the next few years is one reason why we need the 3 cunts gone .
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