Man U and Mourinho

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Baddowhammer
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Baddowhammer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:10 am

I don't think Mourinho is playing with the full deck anymore he talks in riddles he probably doesn't understand. COYI
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Porterman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Porterman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:43 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Porterman wrote:
But I thought he was "the great all"?!

Surely.

And hes got that amazing player Matic .

They are MADE for the BIG GAMES.

SURELY?!!!


My friend, you have proved time and again it is impossible to have a sensible, rational online conversation with you. You have demsonstrated this repeatedly with your obsession with something Pennywise allegedly posted some while ago yet, when challenged to prove your point you have been unable to do so. It appears to be something of an obsession with you.

We are all guilty at times of posting nonsense on forums such as this one but you have a habit of abusing the privilege. For what it's worth I stand by my point that Mourinho has won more trophies than either you or I although I think he was completely the wrong fit for Manchester United just as he was the wrong fit for Real Madrid. Both those clubs have a long and successful tradition of playing so called "attractive" football whereas Mourinho's reputation has been built on a pragmatic approach such as shown by his successes at Porto, his best achievement imo, Chelsea and Inter Milan.

You are entitled to your opinion that he is a crap manager, although if he does fall into that category I shudder to think where you would place our own Mr Moyes in football's hierarchy. Mourinho rates Matic. Moyes rates Fellaini, who I believe was his first signing for Manchester United. It's all a matter of opinion. But I'll tell you one thing. If Mourinho is as crap as you maintain I wish I was as crap as he is. I had a fairly successful business career but I never came close to earning anything like the salary he is paid.

Just for being crap. :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:


It is a long way from "impossible" rest assured.

You can "veer off" into Pennywise territory if you desire but all I will say is I have explained Im crap at" knowing where anything is" regarding histories on computers etc etc.

Suffice to say HE KNOWS what he said.

The fact he chooses to skirt round it is his business>

But lets no digress.

You say I said "Mourinho is a crap manager" and I may have done at some stage (not 100% sure) tbh but in reality HES ACHIEVED GREAT THINGS.

As you say like he did at Porto.

THATS great management.

Taking a group of "on the surface average players" and MOULDING THEM.

Possibly adding some talent you have developed (im not sure EXACTLY if he did so but IM ASSUMIMG there is a reasonable chance he did)!!

Since then?!

Mmmmmm.

Again obviously success (of sorts) at Chelsea.

But for me its HOW IS IT DERIVED.

And to that end I see not much else other than "reaching for the cheque book".

And now in ASTRONOMICAL PORTIONS!!!

You say " you wish you had made as much money being crap".

I dont know you personally (or your obvious financial situation) but what I CAN "hazard a guess at" is that you made it through YOUR BUSINESS ACCUMAN.

YOUR endevour.

YOUR enterprise.

Did anybody reach out and hand you huge swathes of money to "perform a role"?!

Maybe they did.

Lets assume for a moment they did.

If you transferred the same "decision making" into your particular line of work and did "the equivalent" of paying £90m for Pogba, giving Sanches £400k a week (when Lingaard is capable of producing EXACTLY the same result (or better) I venture you wouldnt be in the position for long!!

I would venture even further that when news got out you wouldnt be at the forefront of many companies "must hire" list do you?!
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BlackDiamond
Posts: 3009
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby BlackDiamond » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:53 pm

Porterman wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:
My friend, you have proved time and again it is impossible to have a sensible, rational online conversation with you. You have demsonstrated this repeatedly with your obsession with something Pennywise allegedly posted some while ago yet, when challenged to prove your point you have been unable to do so. It appears to be something of an obsession with you.

We are all guilty at times of posting nonsense on forums such as this one but you have a habit of abusing the privilege. For what it's worth I stand by my point that Mourinho has won more trophies than either you or I although I think he was completely the wrong fit for Manchester United just as he was the wrong fit for Real Madrid. Both those clubs have a long and successful tradition of playing so called "attractive" football whereas Mourinho's reputation has been built on a pragmatic approach such as shown by his successes at Porto, his best achievement imo, Chelsea and Inter Milan.

You are entitled to your opinion that he is a crap manager, although if he does fall into that category I shudder to think where you would place our own Mr Moyes in football's hierarchy. Mourinho rates Matic. Moyes rates Fellaini, who I believe was his first signing for Manchester United. It's all a matter of opinion. But I'll tell you one thing. If Mourinho is as crap as you maintain I wish I was as crap as he is. I had a fairly successful business career but I never came close to earning anything like the salary he is paid.

Just for being crap. :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:


It is a long way from "impossible" rest assured.

You can "veer off" into Pennywise territory if you desire but all I will say is I have explained Im crap at" knowing where anything is" regarding histories on computers etc etc.

Suffice to say HE KNOWS what he said.

The fact he chooses to skirt round it is his business>

But lets no digress.

You say I said "Mourinho is a crap manager" and I may have done at some stage (not 100% sure) tbh but in reality HES ACHIEVED GREAT THINGS.

As you say like he did at Porto.

THATS great management.

Taking a group of "on the surface average players" and MOULDING THEM.

Possibly adding some talent you have developed (im not sure EXACTLY if he did so but IM ASSUMIMG there is a reasonable chance he did)!!

Since then?!

Mmmmmm.

Again obviously success (of sorts) at Chelsea.

But for me its HOW IS IT DERIVED.

And to that end I see not much else other than "reaching for the cheque book".

And now in ASTRONOMICAL PORTIONS!!!

You say " you wish you had made as much money being crap".

I dont know you personally (or your obvious financial situation) but what I CAN "hazard a guess at" is that you made it through YOUR BUSINESS ACCUMAN.

YOUR endevour.

YOUR enterprise.

Did anybody reach out and hand you huge swathes of money to "perform a role"?!

Maybe they did.

Lets assume for a moment they did.

If you transferred the same "decision making" into your particular line of work and did "the equivalent" of paying £90m for Pogba, giving Sanches £400k a week (when Lingaard is capable of producing EXACTLY the same result (or better) I venture you wouldnt be in the position for long!!

I would venture even further that when news got out you wouldnt be at the forefront of many companies "must hire" list do you?!

He was a good fit for Inter Milan and two seasons at Chelsea. Some of his work has been outstanding,some not so.
He generally gets slaughtered for having a massive ego...but so does Alan Pardew...
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Porterman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Porterman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:58 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Porterman wrote:
It is a long way from "impossible" rest assured.

You can "veer off" into Pennywise territory if you desire but all I will say is I have explained Im crap at" knowing where anything is" regarding histories on computers etc etc.

Suffice to say HE KNOWS what he said.

The fact he chooses to skirt round it is his business>

But lets no digress.

You say I said "Mourinho is a crap manager" and I may have done at some stage (not 100% sure) tbh but in reality HES ACHIEVED GREAT THINGS.

As you say like he did at Porto.

THATS great management.

Taking a group of "on the surface average players" and MOULDING THEM.

Possibly adding some talent you have developed (im not sure EXACTLY if he did so but IM ASSUMIMG there is a reasonable chance he did)!!

Since then?!

Mmmmmm.

Again obviously success (of sorts) at Chelsea.

But for me its HOW IS IT DERIVED.

And to that end I see not much else other than "reaching for the cheque book".

And now in ASTRONOMICAL PORTIONS!!!

You say " you wish you had made as much money being crap".

I dont know you personally (or your obvious financial situation) but what I CAN "hazard a guess at" is that you made it through YOUR BUSINESS ACCUMAN.

YOUR endevour.

YOUR enterprise.

Did anybody reach out and hand you huge swathes of money to "perform a role"?!

Maybe they did.

Lets assume for a moment they did.

If you transferred the same "decision making" into your particular line of work and did "the equivalent" of paying £90m for Pogba, giving Sanches £400k a week (when Lingaard is capable of producing EXACTLY the same result (or better) I venture you wouldnt be in the position for long!!

I would venture even further that when news got out you wouldnt be at the forefront of many companies "must hire" list do you?!

He was a good fit for Inter Milan and two seasons at Chelsea. Some of his work has been outstanding,some not so.
He generally gets slaughtered for having a massive ego...but so does Alan Pardew...
BlackDiamond wrote:
Porterman wrote:
It is a long way from "impossible" rest assured.

You can "veer off" into Pennywise territory if you desire but all I will say is I have explained Im crap at" knowing where anything is" regarding histories on computers etc etc.

Suffice to say HE KNOWS what he said.

The fact he chooses to skirt round it is his business>

But lets no digress.

You say I said "Mourinho is a crap manager" and I may have done at some stage (not 100% sure) tbh but in reality HES ACHIEVED GREAT THINGS.

As you say like he did at Porto.

THATS great management.

Taking a group of "on the surface average players" and MOULDING THEM.

Possibly adding some talent you have developed (im not sure EXACTLY if he did so but IM ASSUMIMG there is a reasonable chance he did)!!

Since then?!

Mmmmmm.

Again obviously success (of sorts) at Chelsea.

But for me its HOW IS IT DERIVED.

And to that end I see not much else other than "reaching for the cheque book".

And now in ASTRONOMICAL PORTIONS!!!

You say " you wish you had made as much money being crap".

I dont know you personally (or your obvious financial situation) but what I CAN "hazard a guess at" is that you made it through YOUR BUSINESS ACCUMAN.

YOUR endevour.

YOUR enterprise.

Did anybody reach out and hand you huge swathes of money to "perform a role"?!

Maybe they did.

Lets assume for a moment they did.

If you transferred the same "decision making" into your particular line of work and did "the equivalent" of paying £90m for Pogba, giving Sanches £400k a week (when Lingaard is capable of producing EXACTLY the same result (or better) I venture you wouldnt be in the position for long!!

I would venture even further that when news got out you wouldnt be at the forefront of many companies "must hire" list do you?!

He was a good fit for Inter Milan and two seasons at Chelsea. Some of his work has been outstanding,some not so.
He generally gets slaughtered for having a massive ego...but so does Alan Pardew...


Canny comment on "the Milan phase" mate.

Suffice to say I dont remember them ripping any trees up in Europe at any stage.

Though they may have been too strong for Perugia,Verona etc.

Especially if the Milan President handed him 790 zillion lira to spend.
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BlackDiamond
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby BlackDiamond » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:12 pm

Porterman wrote:
BlackDiamond wrote:He was a good fit for Inter Milan and two seasons at Chelsea. Some of his work has been outstanding,some not so.
He generally gets slaughtered for having a massive ego...but so does Alan Pardew...


Canny comment on "the Milan phase" mate.

Suffice to say I dont remember them ripping any trees up in Europe at any stage.

Though they may have been too strong for Perugia,Verona etc.

Especially if the Milan President handed him 790 zillion lira to spend.

In his first season he won the domestic double. Second season he won the champions league,domestic cup and Serie A,becoming the first manager to secure the treble in Italy.

...so as you point out,he didn't rip any trees up in Italy...what a waster
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Porterman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Porterman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:13 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Porterman wrote:
Canny comment on "the Milan phase" mate.

Suffice to say I dont remember them ripping any trees up in Europe at any stage.

Though they may have been too strong for Perugia,Verona etc.

Especially if the Milan President handed him 790 zillion lira to spend.

In his first season he won the domestic double. Second season he won the champions league,domestic cup and Serie A,becoming the first manager to secure the treble in Italy.

...so as you point out,he didn't rip any trees up in Italy...what a waster


Commend you on your knowledge sir and that is a good record.

A VERY good one.

But Davie Moyes was also a very good manager at Everton.

And even Avram Grant was a good manager once.
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andyginbrasil
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby andyginbrasil » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:57 pm

Yes,IMO his greatest time was with Porto, he was continually in contact with one of our greats, Sir Bobby Robson who would help him behind the scenes, what tactics to employ, team selection and training routines.Mourinho went on to win the Champions league, at Porto his spend on Players in the 2 years he was there was £22m ( most expensive buy was Benni McCarthy .. :lol: for £3.5m) a lot of money for the Portuguese league, second were Sporting with £9.4m (West Hams was £3.5m). Next came Chelsea for 3 years....spent £380m..they won the league twice but not the champions league. Next was Inter spent £155m...won the champions league and the league twice. Left and went to Real...spent £182m....won the league once...back to Chelsea spent another £354m...won the league.....on to Manchester spent another £350m to date ..Europa Cup...they are not going to win the league or Champions this year, and probably not next year either.
This man can only buy success, and when that doesn't work out, he does a runner, (average 2.5 yrs per club), in 16 years as a manager he has spent £1.5bill on players and only won 2 Champions League and 8 League titles. He will only go to the top clubs who have the buying power. I do not believe he is tactical genius, he has the players that will carry him, through, his negative defensive tactics, how would he fare at a club like West Ham...without the backing.
I can truthfully say he is the most arrogant, self opinionated man I have ever met. I love to watch him squirm after defeats like last night where he was totally outclassed tactically and wait for his condescending comments to the press..yes Jose you are the Special one.....twat
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Porterman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Porterman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:13 pm

andyginbrasil wrote:Yes,IMO his greatest time was with Porto, he was continually in contact with one of our greats, Sir Bobby Robson who would help him behind the scenes, what tactics to employ, team selection and training routines.Mourinho went on to win the Champions league, at Porto his spend on Players in the 2 years he was there was £22m ( most expensive buy was Benni McCarthy .. :i am genuinely amused: for £3.5m) a lot of money for the Portuguese league, second were Sporting with £9.4m (West Hams was £3.5m). Next came Chelsea for 3 years....spent £380m..they won the league twice but not the champions league. Next was Inter spent £155m...won the champions league and the league twice. Left and went to Real...spent £182m....won the league once...back to Chelsea spent another £354m...won the league.....on to Manchester spent another £350m to date ..Europa Cup...they are not going to win the league or Champions this year, and probably not next year either.
This man can only buy success, and when that doesn't work out, he does a runner, (average 2.5 yrs per club), in 16 years as a manager he has spent £1.5bill on players and only won 2 Champions League and 8 League titles. He will only go to the top clubs who have the buying power. I do not believe he is tactical genius, he has the players that will carry him, through, his negative defensive tactics, how would he fare at a club like West Ham...without the backing.
I can truthfully say he is the most arrogant, self opinionated man I have ever met. I love to watch him squirm after defeats like last night where he was totally outclassed tactically and wait for his condescending comments to the press..yes Jose you are the Special one.....twat


Some very "interesting" facts there fella and cheers for actually "bringing it all together".

Of course you can always say "any manager who has won The Champions League obviously has something going for him" but for me theres hardly a human on the planet that IF YOU GAVE THEM ENOUGH MONEY and mixed it with even a modicum of footballing knowledge couldnt achieve some kind of success!!

The very nature of throwing inordinate amounts of money and what it would buy (SHOULD be the best) by its very nature almost guarantees it!!

That to me is a long way "from being a good football manager".

Its not even "good for the club" IMO if it horribly exposes them to future shortfalls financially and is in no way shape or form good for the game if you steadfastly refuse to develop talent!!!
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Whiskyman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Whiskyman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:26 pm

Porterman wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:
My friend, you have proved time and again it is impossible to have a sensible, rational online conversation with you. You have demsonstrated this repeatedly with your obsession with something Pennywise allegedly posted some while ago yet, when challenged to prove your point you have been unable to do so. It appears to be something of an obsession with you.

We are all guilty at times of posting nonsense on forums such as this one but you have a habit of abusing the privilege. For what it's worth I stand by my point that Mourinho has won more trophies than either you or I although I think he was completely the wrong fit for Manchester United just as he was the wrong fit for Real Madrid. Both those clubs have a long and successful tradition of playing so called "attractive" football whereas Mourinho's reputation has been built on a pragmatic approach such as shown by his successes at Porto, his best achievement imo, Chelsea and Inter Milan.

You are entitled to your opinion that he is a crap manager, although if he does fall into that category I shudder to think where you would place our own Mr Moyes in football's hierarchy. Mourinho rates Matic. Moyes rates Fellaini, who I believe was his first signing for Manchester United. It's all a matter of opinion. But I'll tell you one thing. If Mourinho is as crap as you maintain I wish I was as crap as he is. I had a fairly successful business career but I never came close to earning anything like the salary he is paid.

Just for being crap. :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:


It is a long way from "impossible" rest assured.

You can "veer off" into Pennywise territory if you desire but all I will say is I have explained Im crap at" knowing where anything is" regarding histories on computers etc etc.

Suffice to say HE KNOWS what he said.

The fact he chooses to skirt round it is his business>

But lets no digress.

You say I said "Mourinho is a crap manager" and I may have done at some stage (not 100% sure) tbh but in reality HES ACHIEVED GREAT THINGS.

As you say like he did at Porto.

THATS great management.

Taking a group of "on the surface average players" and MOULDING THEM.

Possibly adding some talent you have developed (im not sure EXACTLY if he did so but IM ASSUMIMG there is a reasonable chance he did)!!

Since then?!

Mmmmmm.

Again obviously success (of sorts) at Chelsea.

But for me its HOW IS IT DERIVED.

And to that end I see not much else other than "reaching for the cheque book".

And now in ASTRONOMICAL PORTIONS!!!

You say " you wish you had made as much money being crap".

I dont know you personally (or your obvious financial situation) but what I CAN "hazard a guess at" is that you made it through YOUR BUSINESS ACCUMAN.

YOUR endevour.

YOUR enterprise.

Did anybody reach out and hand you huge swathes of money to "perform a role"?!

Maybe they did.

Lets assume for a moment they did.

If you transferred the same "decision making" into your particular line of work and did "the equivalent" of paying £90m for Pogba, giving Sanches £400k a week (when Lingaard is capable of producing EXACTLY the same result (or better) I venture you wouldnt be in the position for long!!

I would venture even further that when news got out you wouldnt be at the forefront of many companies "must hire" list do you?!


With the notable, honourable and never to be repeated efforts of Claudio Ranieri at Leicester, and even he benefited from someone being astute enough to secure the services of N'Golo Kante and Mahrez for an absolute pittance, you will find it very difficult indeed to name any manager who has not achieved success for his club without recourse to the cheque book. And of course there are many others who have wielded the chequebook and not achieved anything by doing so.

As for my own business career, as you brought it up, as it happens one of my jobs before starting my own business was fund management so, yes, in effect people did entrust my colleagues and I with, in some cases, very large swathes of money to perform my job. It would be impossible to manage a fund without having money to utilise, so in effect I also relied on the chequebook. The difference being I assessed economic factors which tend to react more predictably to circumstances than individual footballers who change clubs. People being decidedly unpredictable and susceptible to a variety of factors, including emotional ones.

And I do find your dismissal of Mourinho's achievement of winning the Champions League with Inter, not to mention backing it up with a domestic league and cup double, as not pulling up any trees just a tad risible. What would you consider a manager needs to achieve to consider him a success.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Man U and Mourinho

Postby Whiskyman » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:29 pm

Porterman wrote:
BlackDiamond wrote:In his first season he won the domestic double. Second season he won the champions league,domestic cup and Serie A,becoming the first manager to secure the treble in Italy.

...so as you point out,he didn't rip any trees up in Italy...what a waster


Commend you on your knowledge sir and that is a good record.

A VERY good one.

But Davie Moyes was also a very good manager at Everton.

And even Avram Grant was a good manager once.


Using trophies won, or even European qualification, Moyes and Grant have achieved what exactly ? I can recall Everton once having a crack at the Champions League qualifying round but being knoocked iut by Villarreal but not a lot else. As for Avram Grant I doubt if he has ever won so much as a raffle.
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If it looks like a cunt, walks like a cunt, and talks like a cunt it's either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.


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