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Whiskyman
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby Whiskyman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:56 am

h69 wrote:
coburn wrote:
I would be very surprised, if he isn´t.


Looks like may spend 40M on Anderson but no one ever knows if a foreign player is going to cut it in the English Premier League.....many big names have failed, Falcao, Veron, Pique etc etc its a gamble of course.



I would hardly say Pique failed. As a young player Pique was vying for a place in Man United's first team with Jonny Evans. Ferguson decided he could let one go and chose to keep Evans, a decision he later admitted he felt was a mistake. But of course hindsight is a wonderful decision making tool.

I think it's too much of a generalisation to say no one knows if a foreign player will succeed in the PL. Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah both "failed" at Chelsea yet succeeded with other clubs here. Had they ended up in Madrid, Barcelona or Turin instead of returning to English clubs would they be written off as failures ? Any big transfer is a risk as no one knows how a new arrival will fir into a particular style of play.

Many home grown players have failed when moving clubs. I personally think it's often a case of round pegs and square holes rather than any cultural differences. Francis Jeffers, Jack Rodwell, David Bentley, Michael Owen (to Newcastle) are four high profile movers in their time who come readily to mind.

Although Chelsea, with a list that includes Andriy Shevchenko, Mateja Kezman. Juan Cuadrado and Winston Bogarde, as well as those two I've already mentioned, do have a particularly bad record with high profile foreign acquisitions. But to balance them I expect Messrs Drinkwater and Barkley to disappear down the plughole sooner rather than later as well.
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If it looks like a cunt, walks like a cunt, and talks like a cunt it's either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

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Whiskyman
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Re: Jack Wilshere? Aaah,.....

Postby Whiskyman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:09 am

Gonzo wrote:
Ron Manager wrote:I'll wait until the window closes to see if we still have Arnie and Rice on the books before I believe the little cunt's turned over a new leaf.



And so you (and the rest of us) should mate.

I'm very confident about Rice staying but the Dortmund fella looks a lot like Arnie in terms of style of play which is a slight concern.


Same position but from what I've seen of him (not much because he didn't play all that often for Dortmund) he looks faster than Arnautovic but doesn't have his body strength. Decent scoring record for a very moderate Ukraine side but a spectacular flop at Dortmund my German spies reckon. Although Dortmund the club tanked badly so probably not all down to him.
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If it looks like a cunt, walks like a cunt, and talks like a cunt it's either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

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Since 66
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby Since 66 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:12 am

Not seen that one. I'd rather "he" hadn't :(
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mkhammer
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby mkhammer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:22 am

Since 66 wrote:Not seen that one. I'd rather "he" hadn't :(



Trouble is now....if a player didn't do it......people would be going WTF not....

Can't Win.... :lol:
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belfasthammer
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby belfasthammer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:59 am

For now really chuffed with transfer bizz Just hope pruning of squad Is not excessive
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h69
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby h69 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:06 am

Whiskyman wrote:
h69 wrote:
Looks like may spend 40M on Anderson but no one ever knows if a foreign player is going to cut it in the English Premier League.....many big names have failed, Falcao, Veron, Pique etc etc its a gamble of course.



I think it's too much of a generalisation to say no one knows if a foreign player will succeed in the PL. Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah both "failed" at Chelsea yet succeeded with other clubs here. Had they ended up in Madrid, Barcelona or Turin instead of returning to English clubs would they be written off as failures ? Any big transfer is a risk as no one knows how a new arrival will fir into a particular style of play.


Quite but the PL is a very different league to any of the other leagues in Europe. Some take to it and some do not. De Bruyne had some time as a youth in the system here so its less of a risk, Salah just was not given a chance under Mourinho. The pace of the game here and the physicality is rarely matched across the world.

It is a generalisation but you dont really know one way or another. Its about risk management and players who have played in England before are less of a risk than those that have not.

Of course then you have the clubs and their systems but I would like to hope that most clubs (maybe not ours in the past) try and sign players for a system they decide to play. Simply an Englishman that has spent all his life playing in England is less of a risk than a player who comes from abroad having never played here or indeed lived here (which I know some find challenging and others love). Therefore I guess that would balance the obvious fitness risks with Wilshere.

I also hear his contract is heavily incentive based so that may be the club attempting to manage the risk.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby Whiskyman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am

h69 wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:
I think it's too much of a generalisation to say no one knows if a foreign player will succeed in the PL. Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah both "failed" at Chelsea yet succeeded with other clubs here. Had they ended up in Madrid, Barcelona or Turin instead of returning to English clubs would they be written off as failures ? Any big transfer is a risk as no one knows how a new arrival will fir into a particular style of play.


Quite but the PL is a very different league to any of the other leagues in Europe. Some take to it and some do not. De Bruyne had some time as a youth in the system here so its less of a risk, Salah just was not given a chance under Mourinho. The pace of the game here and the physicality is rarely matched across the world.

It is a generalisation but you dont really know one way or another. Its about risk management and players who have played in England before are less of a risk than those that have not.

Of course then you have the clubs and their systems but I would like to hope that most clubs (maybe not ours in the past) try and sign players for a system they decide to play. Simply an Englishman that has spent all his life playing in England is less of a risk than a player who comes from abroad having never played here or indeed lived here (which I know some find challenging and others love). Therefore I guess that would balance the obvious fitness risks with Wilshere.

I also hear his contract is heavily incentive based so that may be the club attempting to manage the risk.


As you say it is a balancing act. If I was a manager of an English club and I was offered, say, Kyle Walker & Sergi Roberto, both excellent and versatile wingbacks, for similar fees and similar salaries I would go for Walker because of his experience playing in the English league. However if the alternative was a player of lesser ability than Walker I would go for Roberto. Imo a good player is a good player. Particularly those who have played at the highest level.

Of course signing any player is a risk. Will the foreigner adapt to the Premier League ? Or will the Championship youngster prove to be an instant success as Antonio was early doors, or will he be a turkey, totally out of his depth, like Sam Byram ? Or a decent player like Lanzini as opposed to a flop like Tore.As the man once said you pay your money-----
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If it looks like a cunt, walks like a cunt, and talks like a cunt it's either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

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mkhammer
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby mkhammer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:19 pm

According to Adrian Durham at TS......it's an "appalling" move and has come here to "retire".... :lol:

Silly Arse of a wind up merchant..... :lol:

Sums up a lot of the sports media tho....well media in general really....full of crap....
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h69
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Re: Welcome Jack

Postby h69 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:04 pm

mkhammer wrote:According to Adrian Durham at TS......it's an "appalling" move and has come here to "retire".... :i am genuinely amused:

Silly Arse of a wind up merchant..... :i am genuinely amused:

Sums up a lot of the sports media tho....well media in general really....full of crap....


He says stuff like that to get fans ringing in on their premium rate number and to spark debate....and he is ginger and deliberately tries to be controversial. Maybe he is numbers.
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h69
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Re: Jack Wilshere? Aaah,.....

Postby h69 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:09 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Gonzo wrote:

And so you (and the rest of us) should mate.

I'm very confident about Rice staying but the Dortmund fella looks a lot like Arnie in terms of style of play which is a slight concern.


Same position but from what I've seen of him (not much because he didn't play all that often for Dortmund) he looks faster than Arnautovic but doesn't have his body strength. Decent scoring record for a very moderate Ukraine side but a spectacular flop at Dortmund my German spies reckon. Although Dortmund the club tanked badly so probably not all down to him.


Yeah....they never got over Tuchel and his reign of chaos. That guy could fall out with an empty room. I guess the new guy is doing what Pelle is doing with us and clearing the decks.
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