England v Croatia

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h69
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby h69 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:50 am

eskimo joe wrote:I dont understand why it is said or implied that it was a mistake not to take a more experienced player who has gone through it before. We had a whole bunch of them in the past an failed abismally. If anyone can hold their hand up and honestly say they expected us to get this far then i would almost be inclined to say it was a lie.

We now have the foundation for improvement, Southgate appears to have breathed some freshness back into our squad starting from scratch rather than relying on media options and the same old faces', we now learn from this and build upon it.

Southgate himself is , as i am sure he would admit, still learning and hopefully he will have learnt from last nights game, don't lay back on a single goal lead. Also his achilles heal seems to be Sterling, maybe his pace blinds him to his lack of end product. Sterling might aswell be a fly trapped in a glass jar frantically trying to escape through a small hole left in the lid., tries hard flapping about but fails miserably. In him all i see is a glory hunter who would be best served taking a leaf out of Kanes book.


For me, and Sterling exemplifies this a bit, they did look a bit inexperienced and nervous when they kept giving the ball away.. Both Lingard and Alli should have scored and Sterling was too hesitant when he was running them ragged and has lost his confidence a bit. This sort of confidence in big games does indeed come with experience.

HOWEVER, that said...I believe that experience will come by keeping the team together. They will learn from this, if they get into this position again, we can use this to remind them how much it hurt last time and players like Sterling, Alli and Lingard will be more relaxed next time and will then look a lot better.

I believe Germany did a similar thing when their young players came through in 2012 and then won in 2014.

Much better to keep them together and let them grow in confidence than bring back players who have failed at their peak. There is plenty of time for most of them.

Achilles heal for me seemed to be midfield. We were overrun in the second half and will need players like Alli to have more influence
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ToneLoc
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby ToneLoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:03 am

Bollocks to any tactical analysis.
Southgate got everything spot on.
We were gripped by old fashioned "England fear" last night and let a very ordinary Croatia team bully us from the second half onwards.

We just stopped playing. Simple.
It's happened to us at every major tournament I've been alive to remember.
This time around, Southgate and the players managed to manage it until a much later stage.
Fair play to them.
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eskimo joe
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby eskimo joe » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am

h69 wrote:
eskimo joe wrote:I dont understand why it is said or implied that it was a mistake not to take a more experienced player who has gone through it before. We had a whole bunch of them in the past an failed abismally. If anyone can hold their hand up and honestly say they expected us to get this far then i would almost be inclined to say it was a lie.

We now have the foundation for improvement, Southgate appears to have breathed some freshness back into our squad starting from scratch rather than relying on media options and the same old faces', we now learn from this and build upon it.

Southgate himself is , as i am sure he would admit, still learning and hopefully he will have learnt from last nights game, don't lay back on a single goal lead. Also his achilles heal seems to be Sterling, maybe his pace blinds him to his lack of end product. Sterling might aswell be a fly trapped in a glass jar frantically trying to escape through a small hole left in the lid., tries hard flapping about but fails miserably. In him all i see is a glory hunter who would be best served taking a leaf out of Kanes book.


For me, and Sterling exemplifies this a bit, they did look a bit inexperienced and nervous when they kept giving the ball away.. Both Lingard and Alli should have scored and Sterling was too hesitant when he was running them ragged and has lost his confidence a bit. This sort of confidence in big games does indeed come with experience.

HOWEVER, that said...I believe that experience will come by keeping the team together. They will learn from this, if they get into this position again, we can use this to remind them how much it hurt last time and players like Sterling, Alli and Lingard will be more relaxed next time and will then look a lot better.

I believe Germany did a similar thing when their young players came through in 2012 and then won in 2014.

Much better to keep them together and let them grow in confidence than bring back players who have failed at their peak. There is plenty of time for most of them.

Achilles heal for me seemed to be midfield. We were overrun in the second half and will need players like Alli to have more influence


Exactly, espcially your third paragraph. Mentioning achilles heal and Sterling was more to do with picking him than looking for anything specific on the field. I think out of most of the players on the pitch he has had the most experience' not so much more but....He needs his head sorting then he can become the player that is trying to get out.
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Shortshanks
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Shortshanks » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:29 am

h69 wrote:
Shortshanks wrote:I don't think the world cup has ever been won by a country with a population less than 40 million. Croatia's is just over 4 million !! Just a bit of maybe useless information.


Uruguay won it twice and so is theirs

Neville Bartos has already corrected me. I clearly misread the article , in fact Uruguay is less than 3 1/2 million. But thanx for pointing it out.
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Clayton
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Clayton » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am

Whiskyman wrote:
terrya1965 wrote:Should have been 3 up at HT..After that Croatia were the better team.

I enjoyed it and we done better than we thought.


Totally agree with that Terry. In most tournaments tbh I've been glad to see the back of England teams because they've usually stunk the place out with prehistoric, knuckle dragging hoofball. At least Southgate is encouraging a pass and move style which is better to watch and, if we unearth a couple of midfielders with a bit of vision, might actually develop the nucleus of this squad into a very good side indeed, and make them less reliant on scoring from set pieces.

And nice to see players picked to fit into a system, rather than picking the same old, same old, and then finding a system to try and firt them all into. Problem now of course is that in the Euros in 2020 expectation levels will once again go through the roof.

And for Shortshanks. Uruguay have won the world cup and their population is even less than Croatia's. And if that wins you anything at a pub quiz mine's a San Miguel. ;)


So is mine but a Gluten Free one . ;)
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HammerJammer
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby HammerJammer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:41 am

Alf Ramsey would never have put five gutless and spineless spuds on the park to battle it out in extra time.

Time and again they bottle it at the first sign of adversity.
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mkhammer
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby mkhammer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:46 am

Shortshanks wrote:
h69 wrote:
Uruguay won it twice and so is theirs

Neville Bartos has already corrected me. I clearly misread the article , in fact Uruguay is less than 3 1/2 million. But thanx for pointing it out.


I heard mentioned on the TV at some point as well SS.....That Croatia would be the smallest Nation to
win it......Blame the BBC....... :lol:
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h69
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby h69 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:52 am

Shortshanks wrote:
h69 wrote:
Uruguay won it twice and so is theirs

Neville Bartos has already corrected me. I clearly misread the article , in fact Uruguay is less than 3 1/2 million. But thanx for pointing it out.


Sorry mate. Did not read the rest of the thread and hit reply when I got to yours.
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ToneLoc
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby ToneLoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:56 am

h69 wrote:
Shortshanks wrote:Neville Bartos has already corrected me. I clearly misread the article , in fact Uruguay is less than 3 1/2 million. But thanx for pointing it out.


Sorry mate. Did not read the rest of the thread and hit reply when I got to yours.

Uruguay won it when we were still throwing rocks at the moon.
Not a great deal of relevance to judging success of modern day football.
Neither is 1966.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Neville Bartos » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:14 am

ToneLoc wrote:
h69 wrote:
Sorry mate. Did not read the rest of the thread and hit reply when I got to yours.

Uruguay won it when we were still throwing rocks at the moon.
Not a great deal of relevance to judging success of modern day football.
Neither is 1966.


The 'old sport was cobblers' argument is a myth. You try punting a soaking wet medicine ball about a ploughed field for 90 minutes, all whilst being hacked to death.
Ronaldo wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in 1950, let alone 1934.
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