England v Croatia

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BillyDWhizz
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby BillyDWhizz » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:45 am

punkrockhammer wrote:
BillyDWhizz wrote:Perhaps now the fucking media will finally shut the fuck up with all this coming home bollocks. Never been likely, we just had an easy route to the SFs. Soon as we come up against a team above us in the rankings we get beat...twice.



Croatia are below us in the rankings, but I take your point

Rakitic and Modric or Dier and Henderson?


I saw the rankings after and thought...That can't be right...'coz in the real world, it isn't. I'd actually just assumed Croatia were higher than us. Shows how pathetic FIFA rankings actually are...I mean...Switzerland, Chile, Peru, Denmark and Poland are all above us and Croatia below us...Bullshit.
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Hildreth_1101
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Hildreth_1101 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:27 pm

Upon refllection I think Southgate suffered from not making a change sooner or putting too much faith in people.

Was highlighted on TV by pundits but way they pushed us back into a 5 instead of a back 3 really hirt our midfield. Felt like we needed formation change as a plan B or change personnel earlier.

Southgate did a masterful job but Croatia figured us out tactically and unlike other sides we faced had quality to punish us, movement of Perisic for their equaliser and the delivery was class. Young struggled all games, when they pegged us back into a 5 3 2 our midfield ran out of energy and Kane became anonymous.

Would have benefited Southgate to coach a 2nd formation, go to a back 4, put that extra midfielder in there, stop the dominance.

Easy to say in hindsight but we never looked like scoring 2nd half. When Kane missed that sitter that VAR woulda awarded us the game went there.

Hopefully team build on it to go consistently far in tournaments. We got no right to win tournaments but we want to be mentioned alongside the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France and co as big footballing nations.
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Mikeveep
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Mikeveep » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:45 pm

I don't think Southgate was "masterful"...

Most managers would have equalled this semi final spot,with the favourable draw and Squad.

Certainly credit him with getting that squad together and directing really strong defensive performances.

It's a young defense which should be the keystone for future Cup adventures'

So a vote of confidence for him but no knighthood yet
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mkhammer
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby mkhammer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:38 pm

Ron Manager wrote:We need that creative midfielder. If it's not going to be Wilshere then i have high hopes for Phil Foden.



Big mistake not taking Wilshere IMO.....would have gave us something a bit different,let him
play that box to box role,creating,could have got in Modric's way last night as well...
I get Lingard and Alli..playing together arguable tho....but to take a maybe player like Loftus-Cheek
instead of Wilshere.......No No No.....
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mkhammer
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby mkhammer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:41 pm

Mikeveep wrote:I don't think Southgate was "masterful"...

Most managers would have equalled this semi final spot,with the favourable draw and Squad.

Certainly credit him with getting that squad together and directing really strong defensive performances.

It's a young defense which should be the keystone for future Cup adventures'

So a vote of confidence for him but no knighthood yet



Or any Bloody Open Bus top parades.........
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Neville Bartos
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby Neville Bartos » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:45 pm

ToneLoc wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
The 'old sport was cobblers' argument is a myth. You try punting a soaking wet medicine ball about a ploughed field for 90 minutes, all whilst being hacked to death.
Ronaldo wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in 1950, let alone 1934.

Spirit and endeavour are different from fitness and preparation.
If you'd have dropped Sir Bobby into last night's game he'd have been fucked after 30 minutes.
If Sir Bob had been born in 1990?
He'd have ran the show last night.


Preparation has more to do with technology than technique.

As for fitness and conditioning.
Look at Charlton's injury record at Manure. For 15 seasons in a row he played more than 28 games and only twice did he play less than 36.
And that's indicative of players of that era. Bobby Moore, once established at West Ham had exactly the same kind of run. 13 seasons on the spin where only once did his appearances dip under 30 for a season. 37 was the next lowest number during that period.

So whilst modern techniques might optimise a players fitness in the short term, it doesn't seem conducive to an injury free career.
Modern football isn't better -- especially if you've not won a trophy since the early 80s -- it's just different. ;)
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hd1
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby hd1 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:30 pm

Back in the 60's and 70's when those players were at their best, any injury surgery was postponed until the end of the season. Until then you were injected with painkillers and anti-inflammatories and had to get on with it. It's why most of them in their old age are/were crippled with arthritis etc.

And agree with what Toneloc says
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ToneLoc
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby ToneLoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:04 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
ToneLoc wrote:Spirit and endeavour are different from fitness and preparation.
If you'd have dropped Sir Bobby into last night's game he'd have been fucked after 30 minutes.
If Sir Bob had been born in 1990?
He'd have ran the show last night.


Preparation has more to do with technology than technique.

As for fitness and conditioning.
Look at Charlton's injury record at Manure. For 15 seasons in a row he played more than 28 games and only twice did he play less than 36.
And that's indicative of players of that era. Bobby Moore, once established at West Ham had exactly the same kind of run. 13 seasons on the spin where only once did his appearances dip under 30 for a season. 37 was the next lowest number during that period.

So whilst modern techniques might optimise a players fitness in the short term, it doesn't seem conducive to an injury free career.
Modern football isn't better -- especially if you've not won a trophy since the early 80s -- it's just different. ;)

So you believe that Charlton, Best, Moore etc would just hit the ground running nowadays?
Sorry if I missed your point Nev but that's what I was trying to make.
I agree with you that football isn't "better" because it all has to be taken into context.
I'm just saying that the players now are fitter and faster.
It's sports science and is the same in almost every sport.
Even Darts :lol:
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dagenhamdave
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby dagenhamdave » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:19 pm

Must be me, but I thought England were pretty crap throughout, I thought Ginger Pele was playing yesterday with all the hoofing going on, especially in the second half, no killer passers of a ball on show, too much sideways and backwards passing going on. ;)
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IronsForever
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Re: England v Croatia

Postby IronsForever » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:14 pm

What Southgate did wrong was not changing the system in the 2nd half after Croatia clearly smothered the midfield.
This gave little time on the ball for Ali and Lingard and they got separated from Kane and Stirling.Croatia broke the link and did a number on the wing backs.
We played 5 at the back with 2 strikers against a 5 solid midfield. The first half they failed to come to grips with the wing backs and got pulled across. As we have seen with West Ham if you play 5 at the back and dont get them wing backs charging down the flanks you lose the midfield and thats what happened.. Southgate needed to change the system but most likely never had or took with him the players to change it.
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