Defending

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mkhammer
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Re: Defending

Postby mkhammer » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:24 am

Something I just never ever got....Peller likes his fulbacks to attack,Fullbacks that are basically
Wingbacks......that's why he prefers Massa over Cress and initially Fred over Zabs.
But the way he was setting up with Jack and one other in MF made the fullbacks getting
forward near on impossible.
Now we've got the 3 in MF...the Fullbacks are getting Forward....look at how much Zabs
especially contributed to our attack,was a huge part of why we won.

Bit worried at moment to be honest....as "arry" would say we're down to bare bones in MF,lose
one of the 3.. the whole set up might have to change again...no cover...maybe Snod or Felipe
could drop deeper...but that would work better in a 3-5-2 or similar....which the boss won't play
Think he needs to be a bit more flexible there,but he has scrapped his,what was basically a 4-2-4,
to what we have now....so maybe.
His getting some of Moysies shit luck....Moyes lost all his CBs...Pellers losing his MFs.

But the CBs are looking seriously good,potentially best we've had...Sorry Ginge,still my fav.. :lol:
Gives a side so much more confidence when you a Commanding defence,like to see them bringing
ball out,picking passes bit more.....one of Oggys strong points.
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Hammertime
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Re: Defending

Postby Hammertime » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:49 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
andyginbrasil wrote:Diop was a great buy, 22m looks a great player and still only 21. I know I keep harping on about him but, Balbuena was a snip, at 3m, he will never win MOM because he is not a spectacular player, next time you seem him play look how many times he just puts a foot in to disposes the opponents to break down attacks, wins a good few aerial balls as well. But between them I think we have the makings of a solid defense and more importantly, young.


What we shouldn't lose sight of is that the upturn in form and results has coincided with Wilshere being out. Nothing against Wilshere because he does have some good attributes but he contributed less than fuck all in the games he was involved in. Tbh it's difficult to see where he could fit in with the system we are playing at the moment, remember that Pellegrini said that Noble is probably going to feature a lot and I don't see Wilshere doing to job Obiang & Rice are doing. Again, that's not his fault, but I can't see him being happy as bench fodder tbh.

Unfortunately I think we can write Lanzini off for this season. Even if he does return I can't see him being able to play a significant part in games after the injury he's had. And by all accounts Sanchez's injury is quite a bad one, hence the shirt waving by Arnie on Sunday.

Andy Carroll could do a lot of things if he was fit. Including actually earn his wages. He could dig my garden or mow my fucking lawn. But he's not fit, never will be so we can forget about him and finally be rid of the useless cunt next July. Andy Carroll, we want you to stay indeed. FUCKING CUNTS

Fredericks might be a useful back up to Zabaleta, Cresswell can back up Arthur and we've got Ogbonna, and Reid coming back at some point, who could slot into the centre of defence if and when needed. Snodgrass is proving he's better than most of us, certainly me, thought when he arrived and Wilshere could fill a midfield spot if we have injuries there, although that is one area where we look short of quality cover. The other of course is up top. Hernandez just hasn't worked. Not his fault but he's not a solo striker and Perez hasn't been over convincing. And now apparently the Silva kid is injured for a while.

But overall I'm relatively encouraged by recent events.



Have you ever considered that the upturn in our performances and Jacks injury have very little, if nothing to do with each other. As good as Rice, Obiang and Noble are playing now, they were as culpable as Whilshere at the beginning of the season when we had a new manager implementing a new system with a 9 new players in the squad. That's to say, stick a fit Jack (ha!)in this current setup and I think you get a different result once he's back to speed.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Defending

Postby Whiskyman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:33 pm

Hammertime wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:
What we shouldn't lose sight of is that the upturn in form and results has coincided with Wilshere being out. Nothing against Wilshere because he does have some good attributes but he contributed less than fuck all in the games he was involved in. Tbh it's difficult to see where he could fit in with the system we are playing at the moment, remember that Pellegrini said that Noble is probably going to feature a lot and I don't see Wilshere doing to job Obiang & Rice are doing. Again, that's not his fault, but I can't see him being happy as bench fodder tbh.

Unfortunately I think we can write Lanzini off for this season. Even if he does return I can't see him being able to play a significant part in games after the injury he's had. And by all accounts Sanchez's injury is quite a bad one, hence the shirt waving by Arnie on Sunday.

Andy Carroll could do a lot of things if he was fit. Including actually earn his wages. He could dig my garden or mow my fucking lawn. But he's not fit, never will be so we can forget about him and finally be rid of the useless cunt next July. Andy Carroll, we want you to stay indeed. FUCKING CUNTS

Fredericks might be a useful back up to Zabaleta, Cresswell can back up Arthur and we've got Ogbonna, and Reid coming back at some point, who could slot into the centre of defence if and when needed. Snodgrass is proving he's better than most of us, certainly me, thought when he arrived and Wilshere could fill a midfield spot if we have injuries there, although that is one area where we look short of quality cover. The other of course is up top. Hernandez just hasn't worked. Not his fault but he's not a solo striker and Perez hasn't been over convincing. And now apparently the Silva kid is injured for a while.

But overall I'm relatively encouraged by recent events.



Have you ever considered that the upturn in our performances and Jacks injury have very little, if nothing to do with each other. As good as Rice, Obiang and Noble are playing now, they were as culpable as Whilshere at the beginning of the season when we had a new manager implementing a new system with a 9 new players in the squad. That's to say, stick a fit Jack (ha!)in this current setup and I think you get a different result once he's back to speed.


No. I certainly haven't considered the players you mentioned culpable. Obiang didn't play at all until the Wimbledon match and Rice was omitted following the Liverpool game. So how on earth either can be considered culpable for our performances against Bournemouth and Wolves escapes me.

In any case I think "culpable" is the wrong word. I am not suggesting Wilshere alone was responsible for our abysmal early season form. It is a team game, you win and lose as a team. But whether it was because he was playing in an unfamiliar role. with unfamiliar team mates or he was simply out of touch, the fact remains he was ineffective in the extreme. And unfortunately (for him) because of his reputation people tended to expect more from him than from one or two others

In the present set up the only player who's role he could replicate imo is Noble. And Noble's performance on Sunday was one of, if not them best I have seen from him since Bilic's first season. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Wilshere make the contribution to our season we all hoped he would. But equally I wouldn't expect the system, or the personnel, to be changed simply to accommodate him.
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Hammertime
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Re: Defending

Postby Hammertime » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:47 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Hammertime wrote:

Have you ever considered that the upturn in our performances and Jacks injury have very little, if nothing to do with each other. As good as Rice, Obiang and Noble are playing now, they were as culpable as Whilshere at the beginning of the season when we had a new manager implementing a new system with a 9 new players in the squad. That's to say, stick a fit Jack (ha!)in this current setup and I think you get a different result once he's back to speed.



No. I certainly haven't considered the players you mentioned culpable. Obiang didn't play at all until the Wimbledon match and Rice was omitted following the Liverpool game. So how on earth either can be considered culpable for our performances against Bournemouth and Wolves escapes me.

In any case I think "culpable" is the wrong word. I am not suggesting Wilshere alone was responsible for our abysmal early season form. It is a team game, you win and lose as a team. But whether it was because he was playing in an unfamiliar role. with unfamiliar team mates or he was simply out of touch, the fact remains he was ineffective in the extreme. And unfortunately (for him) because of his reputation people tended to expect more from him than from one or two others

In the present set up the only player who's role he could replicate imo is Noble. And Noble's performance on Sunday was one of, if not them best I have seen from him since Bilic's first season. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Wilshere make the contribution to our season we all hoped he would. But equally I wouldn't expect the system, or the personnel, to be changed simply to accommodate him.


My point being the system and the team Whilshere was playing in was in disarray, whether it was Rice at Anfield, Noble or Obiang against Bournemouth, Frederick’s in instead of Zaba, Yarma unfit & a backline adjusting to the prem, it’s not fair to single out the play of whilshere during a period where the whole team was underperforming and equally unfair to say that a fit Jack wouldn’t thrive in this team given a run in its current form.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Defending

Postby Whiskyman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:56 pm

Hammertime wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:

No. I certainly haven't considered the players you mentioned culpable. Obiang didn't play at all until the Wimbledon match and Rice was omitted following the Liverpool game. So how on earth either can be considered culpable for our performances against Bournemouth and Wolves escapes me.

In any case I think "culpable" is the wrong word. I am not suggesting Wilshere alone was responsible for our abysmal early season form. It is a team game, you win and lose as a team. But whether it was because he was playing in an unfamiliar role. with unfamiliar team mates or he was simply out of touch, the fact remains he was ineffective in the extreme. And unfortunately (for him) because of his reputation people tended to expect more from him than from one or two others

In the present set up the only player who's role he could replicate imo is Noble. And Noble's performance on Sunday was one of, if not them best I have seen from him since Bilic's first season. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Wilshere make the contribution to our season we all hoped he would. But equally I wouldn't expect the system, or the personnel, to be changed simply to accommodate him.


My point being the system and the team Whilshere was playing in was in disarray, whether it was Rice at Anfield, Noble or Obiang against Bournemouth, Frederick’s in instead of Zaba, Yarma unfit & a backline adjusting to the prem, it’s not fair to single out the play of whilshere during a period where the whole team was underperforming and equally unfair to say that a fit Jack wouldn’t thrive in this team given a run in its current form.


We obviously will never know if the results or performances would have been different with different personnel. But I haven't said a fit Wilshere wouldn't thrive in the team in it's present form. I would say however that I would hate to see a winning (at the moment) formula changed just to accommodate him. But given his injury history I suspect that Pellegrini won't have to make that decision for some time.
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Taansend
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Re: Defending

Postby Taansend » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Hammertime wrote:
My point being the system and the team Whilshere was playing in was in disarray, whether it was Rice at Anfield, Noble or Obiang against Bournemouth, Frederick’s in instead of Zaba, Yarma unfit & a backline adjusting to the prem, it’s not fair to single out the play of whilshere during a period where the whole team was underperforming and equally unfair to say that a fit Jack wouldn’t thrive in this team given a run in its current form.


We obviously will never know if the results or performances would have been different with different personnel. But I haven't said a fit Wilshere wouldn't thrive in the team in it's present form. I would say however that I would hate to see a winning (at the moment) formula changed just to accommodate him. But given his injury history I suspect that Pellegrini won't have to make that decision for some time.


I think that when (if) Wilshere gets fit we'll see him as a sub for Noble or Obiang & it's up to him to do something spectacular or one of them to fuck up/get injured.

He might even be fit for the Spurs League Cup game so that will be a good opportunity for him.
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Hammertime
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Re: Defending

Postby Hammertime » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:46 pm

As our defenders improve & Rice continues his ascension in the ranks of DM, I would hope that against less attacking threats, him sitting in front of the back 4 will suffice to the point where, if all were fit, you could play Whilshere & Lanzini in the mid with him. Given that these 3 players are young enough to be around for multiple seasons, it would be great to get them clicking sooner rather than later. Having Noble is a huge luxury to accommodate this learning curve & having Obiang is vital in a more defensive set up.
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terrya1965
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Re: Defending

Postby terrya1965 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:42 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Hammertime wrote:
My point being the system and the team Whilshere was playing in was in disarray, whether it was Rice at Anfield, Noble or Obiang against Bournemouth, Frederick’s in instead of Zaba, Yarma unfit & a backline adjusting to the prem, it’s not fair to single out the play of whilshere during a period where the whole team was underperforming and equally unfair to say that a fit Jack wouldn’t thrive in this team given a run in its current form.


We obviously will never know if the results or performances would have been different with different personnel. But I haven't said a fit Wilshere wouldn't thrive in the team in it's present form. I would say however that I would hate to see a winning (at the moment) formula changed just to accommodate him. But given his injury history I suspect that Pellegrini won't have to make that decision for some time.


I don`t think Pelle would do that tbh.He plays players on form and not reputation.
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Dicksies Diner
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Re: Defending

Postby Dicksies Diner » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:58 pm

I was very critical of our defending especially down our right and left flanks. I do believe the change of formation and Anderson and Yarmo improving with defensive cover for the left and right back as been massive part of our form. The formation helps so much. But our center Half's have been the biggest improvement defensively. Fabianski is too making me feel more comfortable with our team as of now.

Loving it right now. COYI
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Hammertime
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Re: Defending

Postby Hammertime » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:49 pm

How many times can I uniquely spell WHILSHIRE wrong before one of you cunts correct me?!!!
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