West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

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andyginbrasil
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby andyginbrasil » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:24 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
h69 wrote:

In my opinion, it is superb having Snodgrass and his work rate in midfield doing the dirty work so that Grady can use his pace and run at them and Anderson and Arnie can run riot up front. We looked like a team today with everyone given a clear role.

Long may it continue.


Snodgrass is a weird one this season. We got him in as a creative player, a job he is superb at at the lower level, but he's getting in the team for his commitment and workrate in the middle of the park.
I'd like to see Pellegrini getting a bit of deserved praise for giving a player most of us had written off a new lease of life.


I agree about Snodgrass, Saturday along with Rice and Obiang the midfield worked really well, now what happens when Noble is available, does he go straight back in....or is this the start of him coming in off the bench after 70-80 mins the other two Snodgrass and Obiang don't deserve to be dropped just to accommodate him. Looks like there is going to be tough competition for places in the starting 11 this season. that can only be a good thing nothing like a bit of rivalry to bring out the best in players, something we have been severely lacking for a long time.
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h69
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby h69 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:52 am

andyginbrasil wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
Snodgrass is a weird one this season. We got him in as a creative player, a job he is superb at at the lower level, but he's getting in the team for his commitment and workrate in the middle of the park.
I'd like to see Pellegrini getting a bit of deserved praise for giving a player most of us had written off a new lease of life.


I agree about Snodgrass, Saturday along with Rice and Obiang the midfield worked really well, now what happens when Noble is available, does he go straight back in....or is this the start of him coming in off the bench after 70-80 mins the other two Snodgrass and Obiang don't deserve to be dropped just to accommodate him. Looks like there is going to be tough competition for places in the starting 11 this season. that can only be a good thing nothing like a bit of rivalry to bring out the best in players, something we have been severely lacking for a long time.



Snodgrass and Rice would be straight in the starting lineup for me. Obiang or Noble for the other position. Noble if it is a Derby match and Obiang if not. Since both get injured a bit, it will likely sort itself out
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Neville Bartos
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Neville Bartos » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:22 pm

h69 wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
Snodgrass is a weird one this season. We got him in as a creative player, a job he is superb at at the lower level, but he's getting in the team for his commitment and workrate in the middle of the park.
I'd like to see Pellegrini getting a bit of deserved praise for giving a player most of us had written off a new lease of life.


Completely wasted by Bilic who could not see what he brought to the team. His work rate frees up the attacking players. You have to have a player like him to accommodate players like Anderson.


I wouldn't blame Bilic. Snodgrass has never been seen as a workhorse before, he's always been a creative player.
Much like Moyes with Arnautovic, Pellegrini has been forced to experiment because of injuries, and whilst he's not hit the jackpot with Snodgrass, he has made him very, very useful.
That said, I do believe Pellegrini is a lot more flexible in his thinking and tactics than Bilic. I suppose that's why he's coached Real Madrid and Bilic hasn't. YGWYPF.
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Shortshanks » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:02 pm

Nothing to do with Pellegrini because Snodgrass was a very useful player at Hull ( his stats proved it), that's why we signed him. Unfortunately plenty didn't give him a chance and were too quick to blame him for others failings.
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Shortshanks » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:09 pm

h69 wrote:
andyginbrasil wrote:
I agree about Snodgrass, Saturday along with Rice and Obiang the midfield worked really well, now what happens when Noble is available, does he go straight back in....or is this the start of him coming in off the bench after 70-80 mins the other two Snodgrass and Obiang don't deserve to be dropped just to accommodate him. Looks like there is going to be tough competition for places in the starting 11 this season. that can only be a good thing nothing like a bit of rivalry to bring out the best in players, something we have been severely lacking for a long time.



Snodgrass and Rice would be straight in the starting lineup for me. Obiang or Noble for the other position. Noble if it is a Derby match and Obiang if not. Since both get injured a bit, it will likely sort itself out

"Noble if it's a derby match". Fuck me I've heard it all now :) :) :)
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby h69 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
h69 wrote:
Completely wasted by Bilic who could not see what he brought to the team. His work rate frees up the attacking players. You have to have a player like him to accommodate players like Anderson.


I wouldn't blame Bilic. Snodgrass has never been seen as a workhorse before, he's always been a creative player.
Much like Moyes with Arnautovic, Pellegrini has been forced to experiment because of injuries, and whilst he's not hit the jackpot with Snodgrass, he has made him very, very useful.
That said, I do believe Pellegrini is a lot more flexible in his thinking and tactics than Bilic. I suppose that's why he's coached Real Madrid and Bilic hasn't. YGWYPF.


Could not agree less. I would 100% blame Bilic for being clueless at trying to assemble a decent team

I watched him In his first start at Southampton away. Snodgrass has always scored goals and been good at set pieces but his work rate was phenomenal in that game...but Bilic just stuck him out wide after that 'because that is what Hull did'. A bit like the way he used Arnie 'Like Stoke did' and stuck him out wide...it is lazy management.

The mark of a decent manager is seeing what a players attributes are and what he can bring to a specific team. While he was the attacking player Aston Villa needed, he had the work rate in him to allow more technically gifted players to flourish at a higher level for us. Pelle sees it, Bilic could not.
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Neville Bartos » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:37 pm

h69 wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
I wouldn't blame Bilic. Snodgrass has never been seen as a workhorse before, he's always been a creative player.
Much like Moyes with Arnautovic, Pellegrini has been forced to experiment because of injuries, and whilst he's not hit the jackpot with Snodgrass, he has made him very, very useful.
That said, I do believe Pellegrini is a lot more flexible in his thinking and tactics than Bilic. I suppose that's why he's coached Real Madrid and Bilic hasn't. YGWYPF.


Could not agree less. I would 100% blame Bilic for being clueless at trying to assemble a decent team

I watched him In his first start at Southampton away. Snodgrass has always scored goals and been good at set pieces but his work rate was phenomenal in that game...but Bilic just stuck him out wide after that 'because that is what Hull did'. A bit like the way he used Arnie 'Like Stoke did' and stuck him out wide...it is lazy management.

The mark of a decent manager is seeing what a players attributes are and what he can bring to a specific team. While he was the attacking player Aston Villa needed, he had the work rate in him to allow more technically gifted players to flourish at a higher level for us. Pelle sees it, Bilic could not.


You have to remember that Snodgrass was a direct replacement for Payet. Bilic wasn't looking for a hardworking, industrious central midfield player, he wanted someone who was going to score a few goals and nab half a dozen assists.
It wasn't an obvious case of right tool wrong job, since Bilic didn't need/want anyone in the position Snodgrass is playing now.

I think Bilic's real problem is there was no guidance above him. The dwarf as DoF was a curse a coach like Bilic couldn't overcome. A steadier hand on transfers and general direction and I think Bilic would've been okay.
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h69
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby h69 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:58 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
h69 wrote:
Could not agree less. I would 100% blame Bilic for being clueless at trying to assemble a decent team

I watched him In his first start at Southampton away. Snodgrass has always scored goals and been good at set pieces but his work rate was phenomenal in that game...but Bilic just stuck him out wide after that 'because that is what Hull did'. A bit like the way he used Arnie 'Like Stoke did' and stuck him out wide...it is lazy management.

The mark of a decent manager is seeing what a players attributes are and what he can bring to a specific team. While he was the attacking player Aston Villa needed, he had the work rate in him to allow more technically gifted players to flourish at a higher level for us. Pelle sees it, Bilic could not.


You have to remember that Snodgrass was a direct replacement for Payet. Bilic wasn't looking for a hardworking, industrious central midfield player, he wanted someone who was going to score a few goals and nab half a dozen assists.
It wasn't an obvious case of right tool wrong job, since Bilic didn't need/want anyone in the position Snodgrass is playing now.

I think Bilic's real problem is there was no guidance above him. The dwarf as DoF was a curse a coach like Bilic couldn't overcome. A steadier hand on transfers and general direction and I think Bilic would've been okay.


Maybe but Bilic was a manager who had a team who could not be bothered. A team with an ineffective Arnie and a winger previously played at Full back

He may well not have wanted Snodgrass and wanted a replacement for Payet but if he had been a decent manager, he would have seen what qualities he had and got him working in that midfield and got Arnie firing up ahead of him. A couple of kids in the side like playing Rice regularly (which he never seemed to want to do) and we may have had a fair few more points once confidence flowed and he may not have been fired

I suppose its all in the past but my feelings about Bilic are that he cannot build a cohesive team. He just needs a star player that will lift the others and it is a short term fix.

Lovely guy though
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Mikeveep » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:47 pm

I reckon Snoddy's early miserable performances were due to him not adjusting quickly enough to the enhanced quality/speed of the Prem.

He has learned now that he can't just push it forward and beat the fullback for speed in this division.
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Re: West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread

Postby Clayton » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:00 pm

Still dont think Snodgrass is with improvements in January 1st team material and would add Wilshire , Antonio and Masuaku not forgetting Noble to that list , Snodgrass has done well of late but just reminds me of a Jack Russell dragging a very heavy chain all tenacity like a dog after a bone but no pace !.
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