West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

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eskimo joe
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby eskimo joe » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:24 am

Porterman wrote:
IronsForever wrote:
Porterman wrote:
I thought we looked "slightly organised" when basically 4-4-2 even with Norddisaster at RB and a bank of 4 (even though I though Obiang and Noble won next to nothing) in front of it after the opening 5 minutes.

[highlight=]Playing Antonio up top did exactly what it ssaid on the tin by having an outball over the top (actually thought he should have done better when he got a similar ball over the top earlier) and Ayew although contributing next to nothing attacking wise ran about a bit and at least put a bit of pressure on them in the final third.

That TOTALLY DISINTEGRATED when Carroll came on and Antonio went FUCK KNOWS WHERE.[/highlight]

In a heartbeat we had lost all mobility up front, put an extra man behind the ball which just confused us as suddely everybody was standing off them allowing them to come forward almost at will and on the occasions we did win the ball we had virtually no outball, at all (save the big hoof in the hope it hit Carrolls head)!!

Of course Slav tonight can claim justification and OF COURSE it great to have got a point.

Think you have to KEEP SIGHT of the fact that you mention though....IT WAS ABSOLUTE CHAOS virtually for the last 30 mins in a game where we had actually a decent foothold and a win was not out of the question.

Do I feel confident for the two 6 pointers this week?

If I thought he would keep a line up that would keep going forward and trying to press the opposition back then yes.

Sadly I dont see that although hopefully be proved wrong!!!

Surely we can play a high tempo pressing game for 90 mins against Burnley and Hull at home?


Yes it did, but Billic then changed it when he brought Fernandes on and stuck him right back and pushed Antonio right Mid to cover the threat down our right flank. I give Bilic credit for seeing that mistake of putting Carroll up and Antonio at right back and Nord in right Mid.No idea what that was all about but he saw the mistake and played Antonio RM after and slotted Nord back in front of defense..I would have loved to see Carroll play the no10 role and leave Antonio up because Andy was getting so many flick ons from Randolphs kicks it would have given Antonio a chance to run at them.
I take the point all day long and praise Billic for seeing the mistake he made and to quickly change it, putting Antonio in 3 different positions and also Nord.
Antonio was Man of the match.

Managers do make mistakes but not many have the balls to change them so quickly.


Fair point Irons but would have to ask you a couple of questions.

1) How did Bilic think that by totally and utterly negating what was to all intents and purposes our strongest weapon ie Antonios running and pace that it was going to lead to us being then almost totally ineffective in the not just the final third but about 80% of the pitch?!

2) When did Fernandez become a right back?!

Without wanting to slaughter the guy (because hes young and playing out of what I perceive to be not his position) I thought it almost became "open season" (wait for the rush from the great Antipodean writers to crawl from under) down that side as Milner became almost their most attacking player!!!

I know we are short at RB (thats an understatement) but I thought we lost ALL SHAPE when that move happened.

Of course we know football is fine lines and we are celebrating a good point....but did Bournmouth change thier formation when they realized Liverpools back line is absolutely gash when pressed as we had found out when we scored an absolute dolly of a second goal ( and dont forget Antonio had a very similar chance earlier on when EXACTLY the same thing happened but made a bit of a hash of it)!!

I also think your point re " Carroll at number 10" is interesting as I actually want to see him get game time. This isnt about "lets not ever put Carroll on" its simply "how do we do it without totally and utterly isolating him and giving him the best chance to succeed?!


Well the only thing I can say is that now we are spending time playing players in odd positions solely to accommodate the lack if a decent RB. It is the hole in our bucket that needs firmly plugging with the correct plug and not a rag just to lighten the flow. If it had been sorted pre season or more in the window we could have players settling in to their designed positions instead of being left as a stop gap.

" Hey Antonio , how are you settling into your position in the club?"

" And what position are you referring to?"
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby Oziron » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:28 am

Porterman wrote:
Oziron wrote:
Porterman wrote:
Yet another marvelous insight into the footballing world by the site bellend.

As for your equally dickhead mate "he played for a point"....what when all 3 were available against a side that had let 2 horrendous goals in a few days after shipping 4 to the mighty Bournmouth.

GREAT POINTS by 2 equal knobs.


READ THIS......."please"

index.jpeg


Look mate I really couldnt give a flying fuck what you or your fellow "countryman" think of me or otherwise.

I come on here (and go to the games) to meet like minded Hammers fans who" want to debate" West Ham (and even football or the world in general).

WHAT I CANT BE FUCKED WITH is when some smart arse tries to get all "schoolteachery" by simply looking for "GRAMATICAL" errors or wants to ridicule about "writing styles".

DEBATE "YOUR POINT".

Do it in a DIGNIFIED MANNER.

Keep it to "the subject" that we are here for.

Fuck me I can do "banter" with anybody whos up for it (as those that really know me will testify) but whats simply happening now is a certain poster has just become totally obsessed with commenting on my writing.....and unfortunately you seem to think its prudent to join in?!

Im not going to pursue this any further as I have CLEARLY STATED what it is I COME ON FOR.....equally I have said WHAT I( and im sure the vast majority of people) DONT come on for.

Cheers.

Everyone should be able to put up an opinion on a forum cos that is what its all about.....

...I presume you know that writing in capitals is the internet norm for shouting.....I think that is why Taans is taking the piss.....Just chill the fuck out and all will be good.... :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

ps...No way was that a penalty against Payet..... (it didn't even get a mention on Match of The Day).......The Reid one was more contentious but personally don't think there was much in that either......Just my opinion of corse....

pps..Taans is a septic cunt and I'm in Oz......(for the record)
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Porterman
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby Porterman » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:57 am

Oziron wrote:
Porterman wrote:
Oziron wrote:
READ THIS......."please"

index.jpeg


Look mate I really couldnt give a flying fuck what you or your fellow "countryman" think of me or otherwise.

I come on here (and go to the games) to meet like minded Hammers fans who" want to debate" West Ham (and even football or the world in general).

WHAT I CANT BE FUCKED WITH is when some smart arse tries to get all "schoolteachery" by simply looking for "GRAMATICAL" errors or wants to ridicule about "writing styles".

DEBATE "YOUR POINT".

Do it in a DIGNIFIED MANNER.

Keep it to "the subject" that we are here for.

Fuck me I can do "banter" with anybody whos up for it (as those that really know me will testify) but whats simply happening now is a certain poster has just become totally obsessed with commenting on my writing.....and unfortunately you seem to think its prudent to join in?!

Im not going to pursue this any further as I have CLEARLY STATED what it is I COME ON FOR.....equally I have said WHAT I( and im sure the vast majority of people) DONT come on for.

Cheers.

Everyone should be able to put up an opinion on a forum cos that is what its all about.....

...I presume you know that writing in capitals is the internet norm for shouting.....I think that is why Taans is taking the piss.....Just chill the fuck out and all will be good.... :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

ps...No way was that a penalty against Payet..... (it didn't even get a mention on Match of The Day).......The Reid one was more contentious but personally don't think there was much in that either......Just my opinion of corse....

pps..Taans is a septic cunt and I'm in Oz......(for the record)


Do you ever read anybodies comment and wonder what "their real point" is?!

I know I do (often).

To that end "I ATTEMPT" to simplify or highlight what Im trying to say.

As for SHOUTING....what a fucking load of bollox!!

WE ARE SITTING BEHIND COMPUTERS so surely anything that helps somebody get a "clear picture" of what the writer is trying to convey can only be good?!

That in now way,shape or form means Im ramming my opinion down anybodies throat.....what " I do want it to do" is to make it clear WHAT MY OPINION is and by using quotation marks highlight WHAT I THINK.....doesnt make it right in any way shape or form its simply stating my opinion as clearly as I can.

It would only appear to be the one poster who finds this worth commenting on and interestingly theres not 1 comment about any of THE CONTENT of my posts which I find strange given the fact I have put several hundred up and gosh only knows how many times hes now "engaged" with me and up till 1 post last week THERE WAS NO COMMENT of football related matters whatsoever which I find strange (to say the least) on a football site!!!

As for "it wasnt a penalty" we will have to agree to differ.

I saw it as an absolute stonewall penalty. As I did Reids.

Am I happy they werent given?!

Absolutely.

The thing is though I will also be mindful when Carroll or Payet or somebody else gets hacked down in their box as will happen soon no doubt and factor that into what I write (if anything) about it.

Im happy to put this to bed....but lets see who "keeps it going"!!!

It wont be me.

Im happy to engage with those that want to relating to football....nowt else.

If anybody has any problems re "writing styles" or whatever else surely its a big enough place to simply avoid anybody who you feel the need to if it upsets you.
Last edited by Porterman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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IronsForever
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby IronsForever » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:59 am

Porterman wrote:
IronsForever wrote:
Porterman wrote:
I thought we looked "slightly organised" when basically 4-4-2 even with Norddisaster at RB and a bank of 4 (even though I though Obiang and Noble won next to nothing) in front of it after the opening 5 minutes.

[highlight=]Playing Antonio up top did exactly what it ssaid on the tin by having an outball over the top (actually thought he should have done better when he got a similar ball over the top earlier) and Ayew although contributing next to nothing attacking wise ran about a bit and at least put a bit of pressure on them in the final third.

That TOTALLY DISINTEGRATED when Carroll came on and Antonio went FUCK KNOWS WHERE.[/highlight]

In a heartbeat we had lost all mobility up front, put an extra man behind the ball which just confused us as suddely everybody was standing off them allowing them to come forward almost at will and on the occasions we did win the ball we had virtually no outball, at all (save the big hoof in the hope it hit Carrolls head)!!

Of course Slav tonight can claim justification and OF COURSE it great to have got a point.

Think you have to KEEP SIGHT of the fact that you mention though....IT WAS ABSOLUTE CHAOS virtually for the last 30 mins in a game where we had actually a decent foothold and a win was not out of the question.

Do I feel confident for the two 6 pointers this week?

If I thought he would keep a line up that would keep going forward and trying to press the opposition back then yes.

Sadly I dont see that although hopefully be proved wrong!!!

Surely we can play a high tempo pressing game for 90 mins against Burnley and Hull at home?


Yes it did, but Billic then changed it when he brought Fernandes on and stuck him right back and pushed Antonio right Mid to cover the threat down our right flank. I give Bilic credit for seeing that mistake of putting Carroll up and Antonio at right back and Nord in right Mid.No idea what that was all about but he saw the mistake and played Antonio RM after and slotted Nord back in front of defense..I would have loved to see Carroll play the no10 role and leave Antonio up because Andy was getting so many flick ons from Randolphs kicks it would have given Antonio a chance to run at them.
I take the point all day long and praise Billic for seeing the mistake he made and to quickly change it, putting Antonio in 3 different positions and also Nord.
Antonio was Man of the match.

Managers do make mistakes but not many have the balls to change them so quickly.


Fair point Irons but would have to ask you a couple of questions.

1) How did Bilic think that by totally and utterly negating what was to all intents and purposes our strongest weapon ie Antonios running and pace that it was going to lead to us being then almost totally ineffective in the not just the final third but about 80% of the pitch?!

2) When did Fernandez become a right back?!

Without wanting to slaughter the guy (because hes young and playing out of what I perceive to be not his position) I thought it almost became "open season" (wait for the rush from the great Antipodean writers to crawl from under) down that side as Milner became almost their most attacking player!!!

I know we are short at RB (thats an understatement) but I thought we lost ALL SHAPE when that move happened.

Of course we know football is fine lines and we are celebrating a good point....but did Bournmouth change thier formation when they realized Liverpools back line is absolutely gash when pressed as we had found out when we scored an absolute dolly of a second goal ( and dont forget Antonio had a very similar chance earlier on when EXACTLY the same thing happened but made a bit of a hash of it)!!

I also think your point re " Carroll at number 10" is interesting as I actually want to see him get game time. This isnt about "lets not ever put Carroll on" its simply "how do we do it without totally and utterly isolating him and giving him the best chance to succeed?!


Good Post and decent points! Billic seems the manager to put any player anywhere as long as that fits the system he wants to play that day. I guess the pressure of conceding 9 goals last 2 games made Billic over apprehensive in his tactics. When Carroll came on as you stated the shape went to pot and we had no outlet . Also agree that Liverpool were there for the taking because their goalie and central defenders were very shaky to say the least but once we take Ayew off and Lanzini we are bunkering up for the point which looked unlikely pre-game. Was a nervy performance all round but understandable given our situation.
Regarding Carroll , he wins so many flick ons from the outlet from defense or Randolphs kick why isn't Antonio or Ayew playing behind him. Let Carroll come a tad deeper and use his Ariel dominance
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby palerider » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:03 am

Didn't see the Reid 'penalty'. Saw the Payet one. I've seen them given. Brave decision by Clattenburg.
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby Porterman » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:16 am

palerider wrote:It seems to me that Porterman is more critical of the team than most. But unlike our soon to be revisited numerical friend, it's in a positive manner. And I for one couldn't care less if points are in capitals for emphasis. Taans is what Taans is. Amusing but a cunt. But a cunt who bleeds claret and blue.

As for the game yesterday, not only did I not watch it as I was picking my daughter up from Bristol, but I had the car radio turned off as well as I thought it would be too painful.

So whatever the whys and the wherefores, it was a great point.


"More critical than most"?!

Dont think so.

I simply have a way of evaluating thing and apply it consistantly IMO.

I like (nee DEMAND) certain things in football and these are quite simple.

Total and utterly 110% effort AT ALL TIMES. Surely thats not too much to ask given that you are amonst the most highly paid players on the planet and are not asked to apply this very often. Also given that you have been chosen to wear the colours of any club that has passionate supporters who pay a very high price ( literally and emotionally) its only right that they are guaranteed this from you as a minimum.

I like certain standards.

Defenders should be strong,good in the air,solid in the tackle,never switch off,be aware of opponents runs and be able to compete for the ball on every occasion trying to win it first in a fair and square manner. By that I mean why would you deem it sensible to put your arms round a player and totally haul them to the ground at set pieces as is the norm these days?!

I expect midfielders to be combatitive,have good engines,solid in the tackle,good in the air, be able to control the ball with their first touch and have a killer forward pass whilst being able to retain possesion and make themselves available at all times.

Forwards should be mobile,strong,quick,always switched on, always looking to make runs into channels and across defenders and be fully aware of teamates making great runs to support them when they maybe have dragged 2 defenders with them (possibly MY PET HATE in the game is whan a forward makes a run and gets into good position and a team mate makes a great late run into total open space and is bearing down on goals and the greedy bastard shoots when faced with defenders!!!).

If that makes me "more critical than most" then I guess thats what it will have to be......should you settle for less?!
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby Porterman » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:30 am

IronsForever wrote:
Porterman wrote:
IronsForever wrote:
Yes it did, but Billic then changed it when he brought Fernandes on and stuck him right back and pushed Antonio right Mid to cover the threat down our right flank. I give Bilic credit for seeing that mistake of putting Carroll up and Antonio at right back and Nord in right Mid.No idea what that was all about but he saw the mistake and played Antonio RM after and slotted Nord back in front of defense..I would have loved to see Carroll play the no10 role and leave Antonio up because Andy was getting so many flick ons from Randolphs kicks it would have given Antonio a chance to run at them.
I take the point all day long and praise Billic for seeing the mistake he made and to quickly change it, putting Antonio in 3 different positions and also Nord.
Antonio was Man of the match.

Managers do make mistakes but not many have the balls to change them so quickly.


Fair point Irons but would have to ask you a couple of questions.

1) How did Bilic think that by totally and utterly negating what was to all intents and purposes our strongest weapon ie Antonios running and pace that it was going to lead to us being then almost totally ineffective in the not just the final third but about 80% of the pitch?!

2) When did Fernandez become a right back?!

Without wanting to slaughter the guy (because hes young and playing out of what I perceive to be not his position) I thought it almost became "open season" (wait for the rush from the great Antipodean writers to crawl from under) down that side as Milner became almost their most attacking player!!!

I know we are short at RB (thats an understatement) but I thought we lost ALL SHAPE when that move happened.

Of course we know football is fine lines and we are celebrating a good point....but did Bournmouth change thier formation when they realized Liverpools back line is absolutely gash when pressed as we had found out when we scored an absolute dolly of a second goal ( and dont forget Antonio had a very similar chance earlier on when EXACTLY the same thing happened but made a bit of a hash of it)!!

I also think your point re " Carroll at number 10" is interesting as I actually want to see him get game time. This isnt about "lets not ever put Carroll on" its simply "how do we do it without totally and utterly isolating him and giving him the best chance to succeed?!


Good Post and decent points! Billic seems the manager to put any player anywhere as long as that fits the system he wants to play that day. I guess the pressure of conceding 9 goals last 2 games made Billic over apprehensive in his tactics. When Carroll came on as you stated the shape went to pot and we had no outlet . Also agree that Liverpool were there for the taking because their goalie and central defenders were very shaky to say the least but once we take Ayew off and Lanzini we are bunkering up for the point which looked unlikely pre-game. Was a nervy performance all round but understandable given our situation.
Regarding Carroll , he wins so many flick ons from the outlet from defense or Randolphs kick why isn't Antonio or Ayew playing behind him. Let Carroll come a tad deeper and use his Ariel dominance


Carroll looked round a couple of times after winning knock ons only to find he was just about the only player in their half and had a look of total exasperation on his face!!

Take the point re "bunkering up" and I suppose Bilic really had his back to the wall regarding things the way the last 2 games have gone (and some of the guff before it)!!

If he had went " flat out" for the win and let a goal in the cry would have been "why didnt you shut up shop" so its avery thin line they walk.

I guess " my biggest concern" is simply what was that in the last 20 mins "tactic wise"?!

He simply seemed to be throwing players and formations about at will and I cant believe for aminute that brings confidence to players but I guess the fact they got a point will give them some kind of boost (hopefully).

What will be interesting is to see what happens next (as we know very soon against Burnley).

Does he strike me as somebody who has "a master plan to win a game"?!

Unfortunately hes becoming more and more like " a certain other manager" who spent the majority of his time working out " how not to lose" rateher than having plans on how to take the game to the opposition!!!
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby tassiehammer » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:54 am

dagenhamdave wrote:Considering what has gone before, it was in the end a good point, especially to get out of the bottom three.




This. Nuff said.

Except I'm glad that oz is the site bellend.
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool - Official Match Thread

Postby Oziron » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:56 am

Porterman wrote:
Oziron wrote:
Porterman wrote:
Look mate I really couldnt give a flying fuck what you or your fellow "countryman" think of me or otherwise.

I come on here (and go to the games) to meet like minded Hammers fans who" want to debate" West Ham (and even football or the world in general).

WHAT I CANT BE FUCKED WITH is when some smart arse tries to get all "schoolteachery" by simply looking for "GRAMATICAL" errors or wants to ridicule about "writing styles".

DEBATE "YOUR POINT".

Do it in a DIGNIFIED MANNER.

Keep it to "the subject" that we are here for.

Fuck me I can do "banter" with anybody whos up for it (as those that really know me will testify) but whats simply happening now is a certain poster has just become totally obsessed with commenting on my writing.....and unfortunately you seem to think its prudent to join in?!

Im not going to pursue this any further as I have CLEARLY STATED what it is I COME ON FOR.....equally I have said WHAT I( and im sure the vast majority of people) DONT come on for.

Cheers.

Everyone should be able to put up an opinion on a forum cos that is what its all about.....

...I presume you know that writing in capitals is the internet norm for shouting.....I think that is why Taans is taking the piss.....Just chill the fuck out and all will be good.... :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

ps...No way was that a penalty against Payet..... (it didn't even get a mention on Match of The Day).......The Reid one was more contentious but personally don't think there was much in that either......Just my opinion of corse....

pps..Taans is a septic cunt and I'm in Oz......(for the record)


Do you ever read anybodies comment and wonder what "their real point" is?!

I know I do (often).

To that end "I ATTEMPT" to simplify or highlight what Im trying to say.

As for SHOUTING....what a fucking load of bollox!!

WE ARE SITTING BEHIND COMPUTERS so surely anything that helps somebody get a "clear picture" of what the writer is trying to convey can only be good?!

That in now way,shape or form means Im ramming my opinion down anybodies throat.....what " I do want it to do" is to make it clear WHAT MY OPINION is and by using quotation marks highlight WHAT I THINK.....doesnt make it right in any way shape or form its simply stating my opinion as clearly as I can.

It would only appear to be the one poster who finds this worth commenting on and interestingly theres not 1 comment about any of THE CONTENT of my posts which I find strange given the fact I have put several hundred up and gosh only knows how many times hes now "engaged" with me and up till 1 post last week THERE WAS NO COMMENT of football related matters whatsoever which I find strange (to say the least) on a football site!!!

As for "it wasnt a penalty" we will have to agree to differ.

I saw it as an absolute stonewall penalty. As I did Reids.

Am I happy they werent given?!

Absolutely.

The thing is though I will also be mindful when Carroll or Payet or somebody else gets hacked down in their box as will happen soon no doubt and factor that into what I write (if anything) about it.

Im happy to put this to bed....but lets see who "keeps it going"!!!

It wont be me.

Im happy to engage with those that want to relating to football....nowt else.

If anybody has any problems re "writing styles" or whatever else surely its a big enough place to simply avoid anybody who you feel the need to if it upsets you.

Like I said....CHILL THE FUCK OUT.........

ps..... 'NOWT ELSE'.....!!!!......are you a "norvern monkey"..???
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Re: LIVE review at full time

Postby IronsForever » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:17 am

For me its the timing of the injuries. Sakho out after scoring on his return. He had no run time. Carroll was out from day 1. He had no runtime! Cress also and Ayew. If these came later in season we would probably have been in a position to not worry about them like we did. Those are 4 big players that we missed from day 1.
One player out here and there is not a problem.

If you go back in time to any era for us , missing 3 of our best players would be devastating! Imagine losing Brooking,, Devonshire and billy bonds together for 12 games. Or Di canio Scott Parker and Rio.
Losing Cress. Sakho and Carroll for so long forced us to change the system and we struggled.
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