It wasn't the Tories. I'm pretty sure everyone was free to choose their side of the debate sans the party line.Gonzo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:08 amThis narrative about the Tories bullshitting to win win Brexit is quite misleading for a number of reasons.
Firstly there were large numbers of Tories who wanted to remain and huge parts of industrial Labour heartland who wanted to leave.
So what was the connection between the leavers on the left and the right? Well it certainly wasn't the £350m per week to the NHS that was on the leavers battle bus and that's the 'huge lie' that is often mentioned.
The vast majority of the leavers voted about migration, it was a cry of frustration and far more about securing our boarders than the NHS or even trade.
So were the voters lied to and has a shit job been done . . . . . . yes. However the unprecedented levels of migration have not gone away and at best peoples concerns lie just underneath the surface.
We are seeing some serious political change across Europe right now and the beginnings of Civil unrest. Whilst I do believe that we are a long way from a populist party in this country the civil unrest part won't be far away if Brexit doesn't deliver migration control.
Farage isn't a Tory, Banks is a Kremlin stooge, and the likes of Johnson and Gove were very clearly in it for themselves. Let's not forget the official government stance was remain.
I would point out that the public were lied to about immigration though. Certainly there was fear mongering about invasions from Bulgaria and Romania -- hands up who has seen one of the thousands of Romany gypsies we were warned about. No? Me neither -- not to mention Turkey. And let's be clear here, Iraq has more chance of full EU membership than Turkey.
We also had Farage with his posters of NON European immigrants. A demographic that only threatens our borders because we elect people who CHOOSE to let them in, en masse.
This idea that leaving the EU will shore up the ramparts is insane. Immigration targets didn't stop the Cameron government allowing vast numbers of non EU immigrants in. So whilst overall immigration is bound to fall, just as many non European migrants will be arriving, maybe even more. The truth about immigration is that it's an issue of supply and demand.
This is all before we get into the insinuation that the UK was part of Schengen. Because certain tabloids want us to believe free movement and open borders are the same thing.
There's so much misinformation being peddled by so many sources. It's hard to sort those with a vested interests from ideologues from actual impartial advice/predictions.
The trouble now is that every side feels hard done by. Remainers point to the lies and potential illegality, and Brexiters the vote.
Clusterfuck is the only word that does it all justice.