NZ murders

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palerider
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NZ murders

Post by palerider » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 am

Awful.

There'll be reprisals. Shit could hit the fan.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Neville Bartos » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:14 am

palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 am
Awful.

There'll be reprisals. Shit could hit the fan.
Lunatics and zealots. The only people they never seem to kill is each other.
The best thing we can all do is not get sucked into their cycle of irrational hatred.



'The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is wrong. We must agree on what matters.
Not by making war but by the unafraid way we choose to live shall we defeat them.
How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorised. Don't let fear rule your life. Even if you are scared.'

Salman Rushdie.
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Gonzo
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Gonzo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:21 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:14 am
palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 am
Awful.

There'll be reprisals. Shit could hit the fan.
Lunatics and zealots. The only people they never seem to kill is each other.
The best thing we can all do is not get sucked into their cycle of irrational hatred.



'The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is wrong. We must agree on what matters.
Not by making war but by the unafraid way we choose to live shall we defeat them.
How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorised. Don't let fear rule your life. Even if you are scared.'

Salman Rushdie.

I think everyone would agree with that. Unfortunately we are not living in a time that is conducive the the open discourse required to facilitate the above. The two cultures (West & Islam) are so vastly different that I believe it would be almost impossible to agree on what matters.

I do think we are at the start of violent, bloody and sustained global conflict between the two.
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palerider
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Re: NZ murders

Post by palerider » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:36 am

Gonzo wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:21 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:14 am


Lunatics and zealots. The only people they never seem to kill is each other.
The best thing we can all do is not get sucked into their cycle of irrational hatred.



'The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is wrong. We must agree on what matters.
Not by making war but by the unafraid way we choose to live shall we defeat them.
How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorised. Don't let fear rule your life. Even if you are scared.'

Salman Rushdie.

I think everyone would agree with that. Unfortunately we are not living in a time that is conducive the the open discourse required to facilitate the above. The two cultures (West & Islam) are so vastly different that I believe it would be almost impossible to agree on what matters.

I do think we are at the start of violent, bloody and sustained global conflict between the two.
Sadly I have to agree. I'm surprised that attacks on the Muslim community have been so rare in the past.

The terror level everywhere should go up a notch or two as nutcases of both races will be on the look out.
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Whiskyman
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Whiskyman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:14 am
palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 am
Awful.

There'll be reprisals. Shit could hit the fan.
Lunatics and zealots. The only people they never seem to kill is each other.
The best thing we can all do is not get sucked into their cycle of irrational hatred.
Impossible to achieve Nev while we still tolerate the vile and divisive concept of religion.
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Re: NZ murders

Post by terrya1965 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:55 am

There is going to be reprisals around the world and that is not good.

Religion and politics are the cause of so many problems in the world and there will be a reaction from our bearded friends I'm afraid :cry:

Personally I think those that choose Islam should live in them countries that choose that religion and not try and preach it elsewhere.
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Re: NZ murders

Post by palerider » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:28 am

terrya1965 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:55 am
There is going to be reprisals around the world and that is not good.

Religion and politics are the cause of so many problems in the world and there will be a reaction from our bearded friends I'm afraid :cry:

Personally I think those that choose Islam should live in them countries that choose that religion and not try and preach it elsewhere.
A tough one.

And going back again to the migration argument.

99% of Muslims want a quiet and peaceful life and are in tune with their communities if they live away from their homelands. But there are always a few cunts who 'interpret Islam' in a different way.

The vast majority go to their mosques and just get on with their lives. But some are full of hatred for the countries that have taken them in. And extreme right-wing ideology is now becoming a counter problem.

Obviously NZ isn't Europe but I've said this before. The million plus migrants that Merkel invited without asking for permission. Were they vetted ? Were they fuck.

And nearly all came to Europe thinking it was the land of milk and honey with free housing and jobs. When the reality bites they get frustrated, bored and then angry. And ripe for radicalisation.

The lunatic extremist fringe will be posting messages of reprisals as I type urging disaffected young men over the world to avenge this tragedy.
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Re: NZ murders

Post by mkhammer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:30 am

Problem is 99.999999% of the world want to coexist and do their best,but such a small
bunch of extremists on all sides,seem to dictate the way we live....fuckin sucks..I don't know
the answer...
The Muslim/Christian thing is not new recent ..it's a 1000 years old now,indeed the bloodshed back
then,over it, was far worse.
Funny thing in all this is that The Extremist Muslims...kill more Muslims than they do Christians/Westerners.

So it's I think a Problem the Muslims themselves can try and sort...we (Christians/The west,
whatever) Can't and never will.
There's stuff in the Koran they need to eradicate....The Christians moved on from the
Old Testament which was brutal in places,the Koran is Similar...Bloody identical at times,they need to
do the same move away from some of it's teachings.

But that'll take hundreds of years...it's something we have to live with at this moment in time,
cos there's people in this world that get off on,and enjoy all this shit..
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Re: NZ murders

Post by BlackDiamond » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:48 am

The shooter 28 year old Brenton Tarrant, an Australian, identifies with the Finsbury Park mosque attacker Darren Osborne and Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Behring Brevik.

Obviously he is a troubled individual and an example of extreme reaction to mental health issues. They all have whether they were identified as such before or after the event.

It's a problem and not one that's reliably fixable. We tend to think science (medication) can assist,but our understanding is very reliant on best intentions.

The only protection proved to work is not one that people want to contemplate. Because it involves hard choice.
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Re: NZ murders

Post by palerider » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:17 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:30 am
Problem is 99.999999% of the world want to coexist and do their best,but such a small
bunch of extremists on all sides,seem to dictate the way we live....fuckin sucks..I don't know
the answer...
The Muslim/Christian thing is not new recent ..it's a 1000 years old now,indeed the bloodshed back
then,over it, was far worse.
Funny thing in all this is that The Extremist Muslims...kill more Muslims than they do Christians/Westerners.

So it's I think a Problem the Muslims themselves can try and sort...we (Christians/The west,
whatever) Can't and never will.
There's stuff in the Koran they need to eradicate....The Christians moved on from the
Old Testament which was brutal in places,the Koran is Similar...Bloody identical at times,they need to
do the same move away from some of it's teachings.

But that'll take hundreds of years...it's something we have to live with at this moment in time,
cos there's people in this world that get off on,and enjoy all this shit..
You're quite right about the bloodshed between Muslims. Sunnis and Shiites believe a different person was the successor to Mohammed. That was 1400 years ago ffs. And they murder even now because of it.

Christianity doing the same died out with Guy Fawkes pretty much.

And a Muslim 'scholar' can look at a verse in the Q'uran and interpret it in different ways. One of which will be 'kill all who don't believe in Islam' in the most extreme of cases. And they do.

Very hard to compare with this Aussie guy today of all days. He seems to have gone off his head when he read about an 8 year old Swedish girl being murdered by a Muslim migrant. But again, you have to argue, would that guy have been in Sweden in the first place if not for Merkel ? Maybe, who knows.

Over a million Muslims with British nationality live on our shores. They live in their own communities which are like downtown Karachi. It bothers me a bit but I never go there so it shouldn't.

But Islam is a fucked-up religion. We don't mix and never will.

It doesn't mean however that I don't have sympathy for those involved in this shocking event.

RIP to those killed and a quick recovery for the injured.
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