NZ murders

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Dwayne Pipes
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Dwayne Pipes » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Scotland Yard are stepping up security at mosques in London will the same apply to churches,synagogues etc ?
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Rick_Deckard
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Rick_Deckard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:32 pm

apparently muslims in bangladesh are protesting against the attack....dont seemt to recall hearing about them protesting about muslim attacks on UK and other countries ...

boots on the other foot now...maybe its muslims who need to deal with their own fanatics first..theyre reaping what theyve sown'...
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palerider
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Re: NZ murders

Post by palerider » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:09 pm

Rick_Deckard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:32 pm
apparently muslims in bangladesh are protesting against the attack....dont seemt to recall hearing about them protesting about muslim attacks on UK and other countries ...

boots on the other foot now...maybe its muslims who need to deal with their own fanatics first..theyre reaping what theyve sown'...
I wonder if that's more to do with their cricket team being 5 minutes away from being wiped out.
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Whiskyman
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Whiskyman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:08 pm

palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:17 pm
mkhammer wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:30 am
Problem is 99.999999% of the world want to coexist and do their best,but such a small
bunch of extremists on all sides,seem to dictate the way we live....fuckin sucks..I don't know
the answer...
The Muslim/Christian thing is not new recent ..it's a 1000 years old now,indeed the bloodshed back
then,over it, was far worse.
Funny thing in all this is that The Extremist Muslims...kill more Muslims than they do Christians/Westerners.

So it's I think a Problem the Muslims themselves can try and sort...we (Christians/The west,
whatever) Can't and never will.
There's stuff in the Koran they need to eradicate....The Christians moved on from the
Old Testament which was brutal in places,the Koran is Similar...Bloody identical at times,they need to
do the same move away from some of it's teachings.

But that'll take hundreds of years...it's something we have to live with at this moment in time,
cos there's people in this world that get off on,and enjoy all this shit..
You're quite right about the bloodshed between Muslims. Sunnis and Shiites believe a different person was the successor to Mohammed. That was 1400 years ago ffs. And they murder even now because of it.

Christianity doing the same died out with Guy Fawkes pretty much.

And a Muslim 'scholar' can look at a verse in the Q'uran and interpret it in different ways. One of which will be 'kill all who don't believe in Islam' in the most extreme of cases. And they do.

Very hard to compare with this Aussie guy today of all days. He seems to have gone off his head when he read about an 8 year old Swedish girl being murdered by a Muslim migrant. But again, you have to argue, would that guy have been in Sweden in the first place if not for Merkel ? Maybe, who knows.

Over a million Muslims with British nationality live on our shores. They live in their own communities which are like downtown Karachi. It bothers me a bit but I never go there so it shouldn't.

But Islam is a fucked-up religion. We don't mix and never will.

It doesn't mean however that I don't have sympathy for those involved in this shocking event.

RIP to those killed and a quick recovery for the injured.
All religions are fucked up, not just Islam. Anyone in the 21st century who still holds the belief that we are ultimately going to have to answer to some Mr Big , or have a host of virgins waiting for him in the beyond, needs to have a serious word with themselves. It is truly pathetic to see otherwise intelligent, rational people trying to argue the existence of some super being.

The most sickening thing I have ever seen was some years ago when a friend of Mrs W lost a child. The poor little thing had a heart defect and only survived just beyond her first birthday. At the funeral some cunt in a frock was wittering on about god's love and his great plans for the little girl in heaven. I fucking swear if I hadn't been with Mrs W I would probably have decked the cunt. And people still believe the crap they're fed. Cunts, all of them. Fiddle around with a kid, destroy their innocence, that's OK say a few hail marys or how's your father and everythings OK. What a load of sanctimonious bollocks.

Rant over.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Neville Bartos » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 pm

Religion is just another convenient peg for extremists to hang their coat on.
Throughout history wherever you find multiple factions, be they religious, political, social, racial or whatever, you'll find people willing to exploit differences. You'll also find every base human emotion and instinct pandered to; hatred, jealousy, self righteousness. Bring all that together and people will do and tolerate anything.

As MK said 99.9999% of us just want to get on with our lives unmolested, but it's important never to adopt that US Vs THEM attitude. Because once you do, you start making little justifications -- let's see how THEY like it, THEY'VE had it coming, now the shoes on the other foot.
No, fuck that. The people who think shooting 50, 70, 200 people are the enemy. Doesn't matter if they're Muslim fanatics, Alt right lunatics, or some American kid who wants his classmates dead because some girl blew him out. What we cannot afford to do is let these tiny, insane minorities set the agenda.

As for religion. It's always been used as a tool.
Ignorance allows people to be manipulated by those who use religion to further then own, often bigoted and hateful, agenda.
You'll still find the Bible being used to punish and/or brutally suppress people in many countries.
Just look at the history of Christianity in less enlightened times. As Islam is often used now, so Christianity was used then. The people have grown not the religion.
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Jacko1966
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Jacko1966 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:07 pm

Rick_Deckard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:32 pm
apparently muslims in bangladesh are protesting against the attack....dont seemt to recall hearing about them protesting about muslim attacks on UK and other countries ...

boots on the other foot now...maybe its muslims who need to deal with their own fanatics first..theyre reaping what theyve sown'...
Yeah, those 49 dead people deserved it. For fuck's sake! (Insert shaking head emoji here).
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Whiskyman
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Re: NZ murders

Post by Whiskyman » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:36 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 pm


As for religion. It's always been used as a tool.
Ignorance allows people to be manipulated by those who use religion to further then own, often bigoted and hateful, agenda.
You'll still find the Bible being used to punish and/or brutally suppress people in many countries.
Just look at the history of Christianity in less enlightened times. As Islam is often used now, so Christianity was used then. The people have grown not the religion.
Precisely. The masses back in the mists of time didn't have the knowledge that we now have in the 21st century. One can possibly even sympathise that primitive souls believed that thunder and lightning were a warning from "the gods".

But we are now in the 21st century and there are, sadly, still people peddling the same old bollocks about the afterlife. And even more sadly there are still a great many people who lap up their garbage.

I doubt if there are any people who participate on this forum who fall into the religious zealot category but if there are I challenge them to answer this question. If your god, or allah (insert name to suit religion) is the all loving, caring deity you would have the rest of us believe, why is it necessary to have institutions like Great Ormond Street Hospital, caring for innocent little kids who have never harmed anyone but, because of sheer bad luck (act of fucking god?) have been dealt a totally shitty hand on the wheel of life.

If god exists he must be an uncaring, careless cunt to allow such suffering.
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mkhammer
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Re: NZ murders

Post by mkhammer » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:36 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 pm
Religion is just another convenient peg for extremists to hang their coat on.
Throughout history wherever you find multiple factions, be they religious, political, social, racial or whatever, you'll find people willing to exploit differences. You'll also find every base human emotion and instinct pandered to; hatred, jealousy, self righteousness. Bring all that together and people will do and tolerate anything.

As MK said 99.9999% of us just want to get on with our lives unmolested, but it's important never to adopt that US Vs THEM attitude. Because once you do, you start making little justifications -- let's see how THEY like it, THEY'VE had it coming, now the shoes on the other foot.
No, fuck that. The people who think shooting 50, 70, 200 people are the enemy. Doesn't matter if they're Muslim fanatics, Alt right lunatics, or some American kid who wants his classmates dead because some girl blew him out. What we cannot afford to do is let these tiny, insane minorities set the agenda.

As for religion. It's always been used as a tool.
Ignorance allows people to be manipulated by those who use religion to further then own, often bigoted and hateful, agenda.
You'll still find the Bible being used to punish and/or brutally suppress people in many countries.
Just look at the history of Christianity in less enlightened times. As Islam is often used now, so Christianity was used then. The people have grown not the religion.

This....Spot on mate...

Religion is used as tool to control people,hence the Fear of God,The Wrath of God..etc,it scares
people to to be "God fearing"
I'm just gonna agree with all you've said so I'll try and see the other side..

I understand why people turn to a God.....it gives you hope when there's none there,most of us
while maybe having tough upbringings,in no way suffer the way some people do in the world.
A Syrian Mother may have just seen her children/husband/home destroyed,she's lost everything,
the hope that maybe they're with a god in a better place,helps her carry on.

Even in this country I get it...

My Mum is a Jehovahs Witness...yeah I know...what can yer do... :lol:

But they do the Door Knocking thing....some of the shit they get is terrible...they mean well.
for as many fuck offs they get...now and then they genuinely help someone thru a shit time..
I Know of a single mother,living on one of the shitty estates up the City Centre,a flat,she was terrified
of leaving it with her baby,lots of drugs,noise,prostitutes...you get it...
These guys knock on her door....she has someone to talk to,listen,help...my mum and the others
really helped this poor girl out.....But....obviously the old watchtower/bible comes out at some point..
Is it right or wrong....if it's helping that girl out,having a better life.

I'm a firm non believer.....had some funny "Discussions" with my mums lot... :lol:
But I do get it..it's the side of it I can tolerate and understand...

Extremist...different ball game..
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BlackDiamond
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Re: NZ murders

Post by BlackDiamond » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:25 am

mkhammer wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:36 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 pm
Religion is just another convenient peg for extremists to hang their coat on.
Throughout history wherever you find multiple factions, be they religious, political, social, racial or whatever, you'll find people willing to exploit differences. You'll also find every base human emotion and instinct pandered to; hatred, jealousy, self righteousness. Bring all that together and people will do and tolerate anything.

As MK said 99.9999% of us just want to get on with our lives unmolested, but it's important never to adopt that US Vs THEM attitude. Because once you do, you start making little justifications -- let's see how THEY like it, THEY'VE had it coming, now the shoes on the other foot.
No, fuck that. The people who think shooting 50, 70, 200 people are the enemy. Doesn't matter if they're Muslim fanatics, Alt right lunatics, or some American kid who wants his classmates dead because some girl blew him out. What we cannot afford to do is let these tiny, insane minorities set the agenda.

As for religion. It's always been used as a tool.
Ignorance allows people to be manipulated by those who use religion to further then own, often bigoted and hateful, agenda.
You'll still find the Bible being used to punish and/or brutally suppress people in many countries.
Just look at the history of Christianity in less enlightened times. As Islam is often used now, so Christianity was used then. The people have grown not the religion.

This....Spot on mate...

Religion is used as tool to control people,hence the Fear of God,The Wrath of God..etc,it scares
people to to be "God fearing"
I'm just gonna agree with all you've said so I'll try and see the other side..

I understand why people turn to a God.....it gives you hope when there's none there,most of us
while maybe having tough upbringings,in no way suffer the way some people do in the world.
A Syrian Mother may have just seen her children/husband/home destroyed,she's lost everything,
the hope that maybe they're with a god in a better place,helps her carry on.

Even in this country I get it...

My Mum is a Jehovahs Witness...yeah I know...what can yer do... :lol:

But they do the Door Knocking thing....some of the shit they get is terrible...they mean well.
for as many fuck offs they get...now and then they genuinely help someone thru a shit time..
I Know of a single mother,living on one of the shitty estates up the City Centre,a flat,she was terrified
of leaving it with her baby,lots of drugs,noise,prostitutes...you get it...
These guys knock on her door....she has someone to talk to,listen,help...my mum and the others
really helped this poor girl out.....But....obviously the old watchtower/bible comes out at some point..
Is it right or wrong....if it's helping that girl out,having a better life.

I'm a firm non believer.....had some funny "Discussions" with my mums lot... :lol:
But I do get it..it's the side of it I can tolerate and understand...

Extremist...different ball game..
One obvious benefit of religious ideas, is that they give meaning to a lot of people who would otherwise find life very frightening. It doesn't matter whether there is any truth, because faith is used as a substitute for facts which we know as science.

We can probably separate the idea of religion - a set of rules to govern behavior - and the question of some creative agency that formed material existence as we understand it.

The former is a set of rules contained within stories and the latter is simply speculation based on current provable facts and possible scenarios. The two have no connection because religion is a human invention and the universe is not. Bit like suggesting a hand is designed to hold a gun when it's the other way round.

Which leaves us with the uncomfortable question of whether death is a bad thing. It's not unusual,happens frequently,is going to happen and usually is unplanned. So we could say it's likely to be inconvenient and not something that is desirable. Since it's inevitable we should probably adjust our behaviours to at least make some trivial benefit to those around us while we have the time.
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terrya1965
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Re: NZ murders

Post by terrya1965 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:23 am

There is a lot of sympathy for those the victims through out the world.You will get one or two arse wipes who won`t be so sympathetic though,but 99.9% will be from all religions.

But if the boot was on the other foot,there will be a lot larger percentage of the Islam community that would not be IMO.I am not saying a silly amount,but I reckon it would be double figures in the percentage size.

If there was a civil war in this country tomorrow,you would have a large majority of non Muslims who would be dead against it,actually a very small minority.But I don`t think it would be the case,the other way round.I think the majority of them would be up for it.
Last edited by terrya1965 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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