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h69
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Re: bojo

Post by h69 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:37 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:50 pm
h69 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:57 pm


In which case we hope that Boris finds enough in the Lords to `Filibuster' any bill that the commons ratifies to force a stop to Brexit.
The so called rebels do not want to stop Brexit. They want to stop, as anyone with an ounce of economic nous would want to, the stupidity of a no deal Brexit. Big difference.
Business 101. Never negotiate a deal when you don't have the option to walk away. It is hardly rocket science.
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Re: bojo

Post by mkhammer » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:45 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:31 pm
Well, true to form the government loses another vote in the commons.
Johnson, entirely disingenuously, suggesting this will wreck negotiations with the EU, negotiations that the EU have confirmed aren't actually happening.
It's also been shown today that government plans to suspend parliament were drawn up before Johnson claimed he had no plans to suspend parliament.
This is the man who said he planned to restore public faith in politics.

Just watching them all shout and cavort like primary school children at a pantomime fills me with disgust. It really is just a big amusing game to most of them.
I think Brexit has shown just how utterly incompetent and unfit for purpose our politicians have become. Shame on the lot of them.
Not gonna hide away mate ..am supporting Johnson with this...

But you are right am looking at parliament differently now....I keep using the word,but it's not
acting as a democracy....I am biased,we all are..but certain parties are not acting as I would
expect they should do,I'm not really unhappy with the Tories approach on it TBH,but Johnston
as PM from the start...we'd have left by now,people liking it or not,but it would have been sorted.

But the courts will be playing a more important part now....there's people in Parliament who think
they can change laws every few weeks if one doesn't work out in their favour..

Parliament needs it's arse kicking....Lords is hit and miss,Tories could rely on it a bit,but Blair
filled with his own cronies.
So we're very dependent on the law courts..gonna be interesting...MPs must be answerable to
the courts,not the other way round..
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Re: bojo

Post by h69 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:54 am

mkhammer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:45 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:31 pm
Well, true to form the government loses another vote in the commons.
Johnson, entirely disingenuously, suggesting this will wreck negotiations with the EU, negotiations that the EU have confirmed aren't actually happening.
It's also been shown today that government plans to suspend parliament were drawn up before Johnson claimed he had no plans to suspend parliament.
This is the man who said he planned to restore public faith in politics.

Just watching them all shout and cavort like primary school children at a pantomime fills me with disgust. It really is just a big amusing game to most of them.
I think Brexit has shown just how utterly incompetent and unfit for purpose our politicians have become. Shame on the lot of them.
Not gonna hide away mate ..am supporting Johnson with this...

But you are right am looking at parliament differently now....I keep using the word,but it's not
acting as a democracy....I am biased,we all are..but certain parties are not acting as I would
expect they should do,I'm not really unhappy with the Tories approach on it TBH,but Johnston
as PM from the start...we'd have left by now,people liking it or not,but it would have been sorted.

But the courts will be playing a more important part now....there's people in Parliament who think
they can change laws every few weeks if one doesn't work out in their favour..

Parliament needs it's arse kicking....Lords is hit and miss,Tories could rely on it a bit,but Blair
filled with his own cronies.
So we're very dependent on the law courts..gonna be interesting...MPs must be answerable to
the courts,not the other way round..
True. they are all useless but the EU refuse to negotiate because they know all the window-lickers here will do their job for them and remove the option to walk away.
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Re: bojo

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:49 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:23 am
palerider wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:05 pm


And chose the very moment Johnson was about to speak to do it. A petulant act of rudeness if ever there was one.

When there is a GE then there'll be a Tory MP opposing him. One presumably hand-picked to vote with the government.

I keep on about this but whether or not you voted leave or remain, the democratic vote was held and leave won. Whatever his or her personal views, and my MP was a remainer, you must do what your constituents voted for. Although Hammond is a wet bore with the personality of a cardboard box, at least he has the excuse that his constituents voted to remain.
I enjoy politics and follow it as close as I can,gets complicated but I try... :lol:
And seeing stuff now that beggars belief...I hope other people are seeing the same..

i.e...just listened to Jo Swinson...new Lib Leader..
Saying quite Clearly and Categorically her aim is to STOP Brexit...not get a good deal..STOP IT...
and Remain as we were.A second referendum seems secondary...main aim is to prevent
us leaving.
Completely ignoring a public referendum...does she get pulled up on it by the media..I've not
seen it,and like I say I follow closely.

I can't possibly see it...there must been some brains left in parliament somewhere,think even
Corbyn gets it...if article 50 gets revoked/overturned....you'll see riots like this country has never
ever seen before...don't these fuckin liberal do gooders get it...17.5 million people are going to
be SERIOUSLY fucked off.
How anyone can call themselves a democrat and vote for that party,I find Unbelievable TBH,
like I've said before...look the fuckin word up,does piss me off.
Be Against something..stand up and fight for your argument... I love it,I get it,which ever side
politically your on,but when the votes or whatever come in,you acknowledge and accept them,
that's whats made this country the power it is,and needs to continue.

I'm a very Strong Capitalist.....but loved listening to the likes of Wedgewood Benn,cos it
came from honesty,from the heart,who indeed while being totally the polar opposite politically
to Thatcher had respect for her....that's how it should be.
But some of Our present MPs...I'm gonna say it.. it especially on the left of things...do not get
what a democracy means,and its vital that you do,they seem to want to just go forward with
they own purposes at the exclusion of everyone else,including the public..
Interesting you mentioned Benn. I disagreed with virtually everything he ever said but I could respect him because his views, although I thought them misguided and wrong, never changed to further his political ambitions.

On the other hand we have seen the likes of Blair, with his about turn over the nuclear deterrent, and of course much more recently Johnson who was a supporter of our membership of the EU in the Cameron administration until he saw a political opportunity to change horses.

Frankly there is not one person who I have heard speak politically, Tory or Labour, Leave or Remain, who I believe have the competence to run the country. Even my own local MP who is an excellent constituency MP seems to change his mind on the Brexit issue as frequently as he changes his underwear.

A bunch of clueless opportunists every one of them who would sell their own children into slavery if they thought it would further their own ambitions.

But I will disagree slightly with you over Swinson. She has made it clear where she and her party stand on the issue. So anyone who votes Lib Dem knows they are, effectively, voting to remain in. Something that cannot be said about either of the two main parties. In fact the Lib Dems are, I believe, the only party which has always been pro Common Market/EU since the days before we even joined.

Both Labour and the Tories are hopelessly split on the matter. And the problem the Tories, and I'm a Tory at heart myself, have is that their membership is, shall we say, by and large fairly ancient. And the choice of candidates tends to reflect the thinking of the more senior echelons of society.

In all seriousness I think the days of us having 2 main parties are numbered which, on balance, can only be a good thing imo.
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Re: bojo

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:09 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:23 am
palerider wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:05 pm


And chose the very moment Johnson was about to speak to do it. A petulant act of rudeness if ever there was one.

When there is a GE then there'll be a Tory MP opposing him. One presumably hand-picked to vote with the government.

I keep on about this but whether or not you voted leave or remain, the democratic vote was held and leave won. Whatever his or her personal views, and my MP was a remainer, you must do what your constituents voted for. Although Hammond is a wet bore with the personality of a cardboard box, at least he has the excuse that his constituents voted to remain.
I enjoy politics and follow it as close as I can,gets complicated but I try... :lol:
And seeing stuff now that beggars belief...I hope other people are seeing the same..

i.e...just listened to Jo Swinson...new Lib Leader..
Saying quite Clearly and Categorically her aim is to STOP Brexit...not get a good deal..STOP IT...
and Remain as we were.A second referendum seems secondary...main aim is to prevent
us leaving.
Completely ignoring a public referendum...does she get pulled up on it by the media..I've not
seen it,and like I say I follow closely.

I can't possibly see it...there must been some brains left in parliament somewhere,think even
Corbyn gets it...if article 50 gets revoked/overturned....you'll see riots like this country has never
ever seen before...don't these fuckin liberal do gooders get it...17.5 million people are going to
be SERIOUSLY fucked off.
How anyone can call themselves a democrat and vote for that party,I find Unbelievable TBH,
like I've said before...look the fuckin word up,does piss me off.
Be Against something..stand up and fight for your argument... I love it,I get it,which ever side
politically your on,but when the votes or whatever come in,you acknowledge and accept them,
that's whats made this country the power it is,and needs to continue.

I'm a very Strong Capitalist.....but loved listening to the likes of Wedgewood Benn,cos it
came from honesty,from the heart,who indeed while being totally the polar opposite politically
to Thatcher had respect for her....that's how it should be.
But some of Our present MPs...I'm gonna say it.. it especially on the left of things...do not get
what a democracy means,and its vital that you do,they seem to want to just go forward with
they own purposes at the exclusion of everyone else,including the public..
The Lib Dems policy is to remain. Its a partisan position designed to garner the votes of remainers.
Why would Swinson adopt a position contrary to her party's policy?
Democracy is simple enough, if you don't like her policies don't vote for her.
Democracy is not about bowing to public opinion, nor is it slavishly adhering to the policies the public might vote for. It's about presenting the voters with choices and alternatives.
You and I both know the issue with entire Brexit process has been a failure to agree on how to leave, not leaving itself. The vote to activate Article 50 sailed through, since then a lack of direction has stymied everything.
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Re: bojo

Post by BlackDiamond » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:44 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:25 pm
BlackDiamond wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:50 pm

I suspect you might be referring to Johnson's performance at the dispatch box. That was embarrassing and I can't believe he is inferior to Mrs May. That is just bizarre,the bloke has waited years to get this chance and shows everybody he has no aptitude for it.

The look on the Chancellor's face was quite readable. He was thinking...you absolute pathetic wanker
Johnson is a clueless, bombastic cretin who seems hell bent on destroying the Conservative Party. And that should be a real worry to the party hierarchy. As well as 6he fucking country of course, given the alternative.
Surprisingly, the Daily Mail reported "Boris Johnson is roundly criticised after his 'nervous and flustered' appearance at 'calamitous' first PMQs" and the foreign press from Europe to the America's were also unkind in their assessment.

The only endorsement came from Trump who remarked...I like him,he's a great guy
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Re: bojo

Post by mkhammer » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:47 pm

The thing with Swinson and the Libs is their stand,and it's become like one of Niges one
topic parties...
UKIP/BREXIT.. is the fact they state clearly, their ambition is to remain as we are...
Therefore totally ignoring a public mandate...to me you can't get much further away from democracy,
...that's extremist politics,bordering on a dictatorship,bit strong I know,but it is.
Their rhetoric is...STOP BREXIT...not lets get a good deal for ourselves,which in there's, Labours,and
SNPs case means we don't actual really leave at all.
Being straight and truthful doesn't make you right in your actions.

How on earth can you call yourself a "Liberal"....when you refuse to adhere/acknowledge a public vote.

They've spotted a gap in the market to get themselves 40 or so seats in Parliament...
That is so so wrong....and to be honest,and I know it's been a fuck up for various reasons,but
the Tories are the only party,that I'm seeing any sort of honesty,and at least trying to do the right
thing from.

Side note....fuckin sure Nige and Boris,have a little "Nodding agreement"to get Brexit thru,
Boris seems happy to have an Election...knowing they wont poll more seats,but if they could hold
the bulk of them which they will..290/300,chip in Niges 25 or so,add the DUP,they should be there,
all about being selective where Nige places his runners,if he puts runners in every race,might screw
things up for him and Boris.
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Re: bojo

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:02 pm

BlackDiamond wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:44 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:25 pm


Johnson is a clueless, bombastic cretin who seems hell bent on destroying the Conservative Party. And that should be a real worry to the party hierarchy. As well as 6he fucking country of course, given the alternative.
Surprisingly, the Daily Mail reported "Boris Johnson is roundly criticised after his 'nervous and flustered' appearance at 'calamitous' first PMQs" and the foreign press from Europe to the America's were also unkind in their assessment.

The only endorsement came from Trump who remarked...I like him,he's a great guy
He strikes me as the sort of bloke who gets invited to gatherings in the hope that he'll get pissed and provide everyone else there with a bloody good laugh. Unfortunately being a popular guest at parties, even as a fall guy, doesn't really equip him to handle serious matters of state. And I always thought PM's question time, where our elected "leaders" argue and squabble like 5 year olds, was the one lhing that we wouldn't want the rest of the world to see and hear. With Johnson now taking a leading role in that particular farce I'm more convinced than ever I was right. :lol:
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Re: bojo

Post by BlackDiamond » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:18 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:02 pm
BlackDiamond wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:44 pm

Surprisingly, the Daily Mail reported "Boris Johnson is roundly criticised after his 'nervous and flustered' appearance at 'calamitous' first PMQs" and the foreign press from Europe to the America's were also unkind in their assessment.

The only endorsement came from Trump who remarked...I like him,he's a great guy
He strikes me as the sort of bloke who gets invited to gatherings in the hope that he'll get pissed and provide everyone else there with a bloody good laugh. Unfortunately being a popular guest at parties, even as a fall guy, doesn't really equip him to handle serious matters of state. And I always thought PM's question time, where our elected "leaders" argue and squabble like 5 year olds, was the one lhing that we wouldn't want the rest of the world to see and hear. With Johnson now taking a leading role in that particular farce I'm more convinced than ever I was right. :lol:
I take - and agree - with that point. Of course BBC Parliament sort of lets the cat out the bag really...
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Re: bojo

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:51 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:47 pm
The thing with Swinson and the Libs is their stand,and it's become like one of Niges one
topic parties...
UKIP/BREXIT.. is the fact they state clearly, their ambition is to remain as we are...
Therefore totally ignoring a public mandate...to me you can't get much further away from democracy,
...that's extremist politics,bordering on a dictatorship,bit strong I know,but it is.
Their rhetoric is...STOP BREXIT...not lets get a good deal for ourselves,which in there's, Labours,and
SNPs case means we don't actual really leave at all.
Being straight and truthful doesn't make you right in your actions.

How on earth can you call yourself a "Liberal"....when you refuse to adhere/acknowledge a public vote.

They've spotted a gap in the market to get themselves 40 or so seats in Parliament...
That is so so wrong....and to be honest,and I know it's been a fuck up for various reasons,but
the Tories are the only party,that I'm seeing any sort of honesty,and at least trying to do the right
thing from.

Side note....fuckin sure Nige and Boris,have a little "Nodding agreement"to get Brexit thru,
Boris seems happy to have an Election...knowing they wont poll more seats,but if they could hold
the bulk of them which they will..290/300,chip in Niges 25 or so,add the DUP,they should be there,
all about being selective where Nige places his runners,if he puts runners in every race,might screw
things up for him and Boris.
The thing is the Lib Dems are not ignoring their members though. Are you suggesting Tory MPs should unquestioningly back a Labour manifesto if Labour wins a general election, or vice versa?

I'm sorry, mate, but if what you're taking from this debacle is that only the Tories are honest, I can only wonder about the lens you view the world through.
Just to remind you Boris Johnson is PM. A man who hasn't even got a passing knowledge of concepts like loyalty, honesty, trust and integrity.
And what a cabinet he's appointed. Better described as liars, backstabbers and lickspittles than 'honest'.
Seriously Patel was literally sacked for having secret meetings, outside of her remit, with foreign powers.

Now if you mean the Tories are more honest about their dishonesty than the rest, I'd disagree with that too.
The Tories engineered this cockup in the form of Cameron, threw away their majority and any ability to control the process under May, and are now attempting to push through the no deal that NOBODY wants under Johnson. If that isn't an indictment of Tory politics what is?
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