Was old sport rubbish?

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Neville Bartos
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Was old sport rubbish?

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed May 13, 2020 2:29 am

I keep having this argument when people start banging on about how sportsmen from other eras couldn't compete nowadays.
My reply is always; maybe so, but how would the modern sportsman do back in the day?
If you stick Hamilton in Fangio's or Clark's car would he still sweep all before him?
How would Saul Alvarez do boxing half a dozen times a year, year in year out, or 2 or 3 times in a month like Ray Robinson?
Would Ronaldo be half as effective kicking about a heavy, wet, leather ball, and getting hacked to death on Saturday afternoon all whilst holding down a regular job during the week?
And how would Lara or Tendulkar have fared on uncovered pitches against Bedser or SF Barnes, or facing up to Frank Tyson sans helmet and arm guards?

Different times, different challenges, Imo. Not harder or easier just different.
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Noni
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by Noni » Wed May 13, 2020 3:44 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:29 am
I keep having this argument when people start banging on about how sportsmen from other eras couldn't compete nowadays.
My reply is always; maybe so, but how would the modern sportsman do back in the day?
If you stick Hamilton in Fangio's or Clark's car would he still sweep all before him?
How would Saul Alvarez do boxing half a dozen times a year, year in year out, or 2 or 3 times in a month like Ray Robinson?
Would Ronaldo be half as effective kicking about a heavy, wet, leather ball, and getting hacked to death on Saturday afternoon all whilst holding down a regular job during the week?
And how would Lara or Tendulkar have fared on uncovered pitches against Bedser or SF Barnes, or facing up to Frank Tyson sans helmet and arm guards?

Different times, different challenges, Imo. Not harder or easier just different.
I agree
.

Saleries have increased, better equipment today, better training and coaching, no drinking and smoking.

Very different indeed!.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by Whiskyman » Wed May 13, 2020 7:46 am

George Best would have been a superstar in today\s football. Lionel Messi would have been a superstar back in the 60's.Imo genius is genius and yesterday's sportsmen would , had they been around today, have the benefit of today's methods and benefited from them.

One difference might be that some of the more intelligent ones coming through today might have been encouraged towards a different career path back in the time when telephone number salaries weren't the norm for the top performers.
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by BlackDiamond » Wed May 13, 2020 9:06 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:46 am
George Best would have been a superstar in today\s football. Lionel Messi would have been a superstar back in the 60's.Imo genius is genius and yesterday's sportsmen would , had they been around today, have the benefit of today's methods and benefited from them.

One difference might be that some of the more intelligent ones coming through today might have been encouraged towards a different career path back in the time when telephone number salaries weren't the norm for the top performers.
Taking Best as an example.He would still have been a lazy piss artist and with the salaries of today would have been tempted with even greater distractions.

That said,he would have played in much better teams and won more honours is the working theory. However,would he have flourished under Pep or at Liverpool under Klopp.

He was a good player but his temperament would still see him burn bright for a couple of seasons and then become unstable. And when the music stopped,some club would have a £200M player that nobody else would want the risk of...
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by Whiskyman » Wed May 13, 2020 9:16 am

BlackDiamond wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:06 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:46 am
George Best would have been a superstar in today\s football. Lionel Messi would have been a superstar back in the 60's.Imo genius is genius and yesterday's sportsmen would , had they been around today, have the benefit of today's methods and benefited from them.

One difference might be that some of the more intelligent ones coming through today might have been encouraged towards a different career path back in the time when telephone number salaries weren't the norm for the top performers.
Taking Best as an example.He would still have been a lazy piss artist and with the salaries of today would have been tempted with even greater distractions.

That said,he would have played in much better teams and won more honours is the working theory. However,would he have flourished under Pep or at Liverpool under Klopp.

He was a good player but his temperament would still see him burn bright for a couple of seasons and then become unstable. And when the music stopped,some club would have a £200M player that nobody else would want the risk of...
Granted, he could have become another Ravel Morrison. But isn't there also the possibility that had he played under Ferguson he may have buckled down and prospered ? And of course in present day football he wouldn't have been faced with the thuggery employed by many defenmders back in the 60's and 70's.

The point I'm really making is that talent is timeless.
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by BlackDiamond » Wed May 13, 2020 9:28 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:16 am
BlackDiamond wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:06 am

Taking Best as an example.He would still have been a lazy piss artist and with the salaries of today would have been tempted with even greater distractions.

That said,he would have played in much better teams and won more honours is the working theory. However,would he have flourished under Pep or at Liverpool under Klopp.

He was a good player but his temperament would still see him burn bright for a couple of seasons and then become unstable. And when the music stopped,some club would have a £200M player that nobody else would want the risk of...
Granted, he could have become another Ravel Morrison. But isn't there also the possibility that had he played under Ferguson he may have buckled down and prospered ? And of course in present day football he wouldn't have been faced with the thuggery employed by many defenmders back in the 60's and 70's.

The point I'm really making is that talent is timeless.
Yes talent is timeless and it's intriguing to speculate had he played under Ferguson how that would have developed.

Maybe he would have burnt brighter for longer - and maybe David Beckham might not be who he is now...
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mkhammer
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by mkhammer » Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 pm

Yeah..don't think Bestie would have got thru these days...some of us have a self destruct button
that cant be turned off....nothing changes...1960s 2020...when ever...there is a bit more help
and advice around these days tho..
his behaviour wouldn't be tolerated now....a club would get shot,and sign some Sth American
for 50 mill..

Players are way fitter now...better pitches,better balls...makes it easier for present day players..

One of the things that screwed us,back in the day...we tried to play the modern game on shit pitches
it just wasn't poss...can't play a decent passing game,when the ball keeps getting stuck in a mud
puddle...so things are different now...
But a great player is a great player what ever era...same for all sports,can only be the best and be rated
by your piers at the time.
Some of us are just more naturally gifted than others...others have to graft like hell to be half as
good.

Guys...and Girls...Can run the 100 metres a full second quicker now than 100 years ago...thats
huge...bout 10 metres...how much of that is better shoes/track etc....or is it they are just
faster now....correct training...weights/diet etc.

Things like motor racing back in the day....was a bit more driver ability...balls and courage ,
than it is now....you could be as quick as someone....but who breaks last will win,not quite
so relevant anymore...more technically,what can the car do...but saying that..think Lewis
is genuinely half a second quicker than anyone else....Le Clerk/Vestappen very close to him now tho.

Boxings stayed pretty much the same...but that's just one against one,no outside interference,
might be fitter...but they fight less rounds now....watched Sugar Ray/Hearns (first one) during week
they were at it for 15...amazing fitness.

Better stop could bang on about sport all day.... :lol:
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by terrya1965 » Wed May 13, 2020 12:26 pm

I'm wondering how good Brooking and Devonshire would have been without the hatchet men.

Obviously,it was a lot worse in the 1970's,with likes of Tommy Smith and Chopper Harris around.

In my opinion Liverpool won trophies because they had the likes of Smith and Souness.The latter always took out the other teams best midfielder to stop the opposition playing,especially at Anfield.Refs let them get away with murder.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by Neville Bartos » Thu May 14, 2020 12:01 am

mkhammer wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 pm
Yeah..don't think Bestie would have got thru these days...some of us have a self destruct button
that cant be turned off....nothing changes...1960s 2020...when ever...there is a bit more help
and advice around these days tho..
his behaviour wouldn't be tolerated now....a club would get shot,and sign some Sth American
for 50 mill..

Players are way fitter now...better pitches,better balls...makes it easier for present day players..

One of the things that screwed us,back in the day...we tried to play the modern game on shit pitches
it just wasn't poss...can't play a decent passing game,when the ball keeps getting stuck in a mud
puddle...so things are different now...
But a great player is a great player what ever era...same for all sports,can only be the best and be rated
by your piers at the time.
Some of us are just more naturally gifted than others...others have to graft like hell to be half as
good.

Guys...and Girls...Can run the 100 metres a full second quicker now than 100 years ago...thats
huge...bout 10 metres...how much of that is better shoes/track etc....or is it they are just
faster now....correct training...weights/diet etc.

Things like motor racing back in the day....was a bit more driver ability...balls and courage ,
than it is now....you could be as quick as someone....but who breaks last will win,not quite
so relevant anymore...more technically,what can the car do...but saying that..think Lewis
is genuinely half a second quicker than anyone else....Le Clerk/Vestappen very close to him now tho.

Boxings stayed pretty much the same...but that's just one against one,no outside interference,
might be fitter...but they fight less rounds now....watched Sugar Ray/Hearns (first one) during week
they were at it for 15...amazing fitness.

Better stop could bang on about sport all day.... :lol:
I agree with most of that, except the boxing.
These days a top fighter will fight maximum three times a year, and maybe as little as once.
Robinson fought 200 times in his career. He'd often tour Europe fighting every couple of weeks.
There were no lengthy training camps for fighters to boil off their natural body weight like most boxers do these days. Guys walked around at the same weight they fought, rather than 20 or 30lbs heavier.
There were less divisions too, and fewer governing bodies handing out world titles (there are currently 3 WBA HW champions, 2 WBC, and thankfully only one each for the IBF and WBO).
If a fighter wanted to move up the weight classes it was middleweight straight to light heavy and onto heavyweight. Yeah it was still one on one, but the journey into the ring was very different.
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Re: Was old sport rubbish?

Post by mkhammer » Thu May 14, 2020 10:56 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:01 am
mkhammer wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 pm
Yeah..don't think Bestie would have got thru these days...some of us have a self destruct button
that cant be turned off....nothing changes...1960s 2020...when ever...there is a bit more help
and advice around these days tho..
his behaviour wouldn't be tolerated now....a club would get shot,and sign some Sth American
for 50 mill..

Players are way fitter now...better pitches,better balls...makes it easier for present day players..

One of the things that screwed us,back in the day...we tried to play the modern game on shit pitches
it just wasn't poss...can't play a decent passing game,when the ball keeps getting stuck in a mud
puddle...so things are different now...
But a great player is a great player what ever era...same for all sports,can only be the best and be rated
by your piers at the time.
Some of us are just more naturally gifted than others...others have to graft like hell to be half as
good.

Guys...and Girls...Can run the 100 metres a full second quicker now than 100 years ago...thats
huge...bout 10 metres...how much of that is better shoes/track etc....or is it they are just
faster now....correct training...weights/diet etc.

Things like motor racing back in the day....was a bit more driver ability...balls and courage ,
than it is now....you could be as quick as someone....but who breaks last will win,not quite
so relevant anymore...more technically,what can the car do...but saying that..think Lewis
is genuinely half a second quicker than anyone else....Le Clerk/Vestappen very close to him now tho.

Boxings stayed pretty much the same...but that's just one against one,no outside interference,
might be fitter...but they fight less rounds now....watched Sugar Ray/Hearns (first one) during week
they were at it for 15...amazing fitness.

Better stop could bang on about sport all day.... :lol:
I agree with most of that, except the boxing.
These days a top fighter will fight maximum three times a year, and maybe as little as once.
Robinson fought 200 times in his career. He'd often tour Europe fighting every couple of weeks.
There were no lengthy training camps for fighters to boil off their natural body weight like most boxers do these days. Guys walked around at the same weight they fought, rather than 20 or 30lbs heavier.
There were less divisions too, and fewer governing bodies handing out world titles (there are currently 3 WBA HW champions, 2 WBC, and thankfully only one each for the IBF and WBO).
If a fighter wanted to move up the weight classes it was middleweight straight to light heavy and onto heavyweight. Yeah it was still one on one, but the journey into the ring was very different.
Yeah good points mate...but spose it's like footie,well most sports...the support,knowledge,back
up for it in training/diets etc is way ahead of what it was.

Just shows how much respect we should have for past Sportsman...a whole lot tougher for them
then...
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