Election Thread

News, Banter and anything else non football!!

Who You Going To Vote For?

Poll ended at Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:19 am

Conservative
23
44%
Labour
17
33%
Liberal Democrats
3
6%
Green
1
2%
Scottish Lot
1
2%
UKIP
3
6%
Someone else
4
8%
 
Total votes: 52

User avatar
Whiskyman
Posts: 2133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby Whiskyman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:14 am

mkhammer wrote:
Whiskyman wrote:
mkhammer wrote:
Get what your saying whiskey I think, but if I am getting it right and your saying people who don't vote
would be anti Tory,the fact that they didn't vote Labour either,also makes them anti Labour.
So we either disregard,or we have to split the way they would have voted if they were forced to.

I think the flaw in the system is people not recognising when a party has won an election,even
if not a majority.
You get the same points for a hard fought 1-0 win as you do for a 5-0 thrashing...
Which we all know about.. :i am genuinely amused:
So the winning party must be allowed to govern,it's not like it's level,I mean it is 60 seats...

I agree with the PR thing,but for the life of me can't work a system out that would suit
this country and the way it's set up.
( I've just stuck something up about the PR thing on here,so won't bore you anymore.. :i am genuinely amused: )



Just to avoid confusion I'm basing everything on the number of votes cast. I don't think any consideration can be made, or assumptions on who they might vote for, about people who didn't bother to exercise their democratic right.

Simply put what I'm actually saying is that, even when the government has a massive, Blairlike, majority if you add up the total votes cast more people actually voted for someone else than voted Labour. And imo that isn't truly democratic.


Sorry mate thought you meant that people who didn't vote were against a winning party..

Yeah Def think a PR System in the commons on certain issues should somehow be introduced.
So even if a party only has a few seats,their percentage of public support,should be recognised.


And on that we are in agreement.
1 x
People who claim to be modest usually have a lot to be modest about.

User avatar
Whiskyman
Posts: 2133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby Whiskyman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:35 am

frogiron wrote:PR would do nothing but ensure that the only decision made is no decision. Or, worse, that decisions of a national nature like the funding of the NHS are decided by some tiny little fringe party - the "Save Twittingham Village Hall" Party or the like, who hold the vital balance of power sufficient for the government to achieve a majority.



Agree with most of what you said in your post. Except this bit.

Germany has a PR system and they seem to have managed their economy somewhat more expertly than most other countries, have they not?

Save Twittingham Village Hall might be OK as a platform in Twittingham but would hardly resonate with the electorate at large.

I have absolutely no time for UKIP but I'll use them as an example as in the 2015 election their policies clearly struck a chord with the electorate.

In that election they polled a total of almost 3.9 million votes (12.6% of votes cast). The people who voted for them were effectively represented in parliament by 1 single MP. Some 9.3 million (30.4%) voted Labour and were represented by 232. The 11.3 million (36.9%) Tory voters elected 331 members.

Even more absurdly the 2.4 million (7.9%) who voted Lib Dem and the 1.4 million (4.7%) who voted SNP were rewarded with 8 & 56 MPs respectively. Even though if you add the Lib Dem and SNP votes together you almost get a dead heat between their combined votes and UKIP. Thus the people who voted Lib Dem and SNP had their views far more effectively represented in the house.

And I don't believe that is true democracy. The UK is one of the very few countries which operates a first past the post system. Of course there are certain countries where PR doesn't work well. Italy is a good example. But there are many more examples where consensus government has delivered both stability and prosperity.
0 x
People who claim to be modest usually have a lot to be modest about.

User avatar
whu
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 10:20 am

Re: Election Thread

Postby whu » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:48 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
whu wrote:
Hammerwell wrote:Lmfao @ This page !!


So all I've read is '' if you vote Labour , your lazy , workshy and thick '' . Probably got memory loss and are to blame for us having a deficit ........... :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: Lets not forget it was them who bailed out the banks , ''they keep saying'' , ( even though that Tory bloke David Cameron was saying give them more ) .............. :o

But yes they have opened the boarders to unlimited immigration , they do over spend while in power , but TBH without seeing any figures and stuff like that it would be hard to comment too much as we do need housing , NHS, transport etc . But least they tried to keep it British owned .



But if you vote Tory then your the worlds brainiest , the most hardest worker , without you lot there would be no jobs , industry , future or nothing for our next generations .


But it the tories who sold off the British owned assets , public services , want privatisation of the NHS , ( mainly sold of too their party donners , already done the dentists , ) they sold royal mail to their chums for a knock down price , they penalised some of the most vulnerable people in our society by taking care and support away from them , while rewarding tax cuts for the rich . They keep our nurses on a 1% pay rise for years btw , whilst takin a 22% pay rise for themselves as well as expenses ... Their DWP minister said people who are on bennifits can and should live on £30 pw , bills and food yet its ok for him to put a £30 expenses tab for 1 breakfast :shock: whilst the Tory Prime minister at the time got looked into for tax evasion and offshore accounts :o

The end of the day the list could go on for both parties as they are both in it for themselves ...... I'd like to know what you call your fellow Tory voters that changed to Labour or UKIP etc ?? Are they also thick and workshy scroungers , same as the Labour voters who turn Tory , is that because they now have Jobs ??

People will vote for what ever they see fit at the time , if it isn't a Tory vote it doesn't mean your a drop out in life , I'm fully independent , I own my house outright , I own my car and I support myself financially and I will continue for the rest of my life , ( im only 42 now , how many tories are still getting up to pay for theirs ?? ) , ive paid taxes but never claimed benefits . it doesnt bother me that someone might just be getting a few quid for free as most cases are genuine and in need of help , some are not but imo thats for the docs to decide not MPs .. yeah I hate seeing ones that I presume can work, not working but I don't know their circumstances , I do know if life was so great on benefits then we'd all be on them , BTW it's pensioners that are the biggest burden on the welfare benefits , maybe we should stop them from receiving them , I mean its not like we are gunna get ours now is it .....


The whole political system is fucked up and doesn't work for anyone hardly , left or right they all get told how to run the country by the businesses and banks etc and non of it is for the everyday person , we are just there to things going and to make others richer ........



So IMO if you vote left or right then your just as deluded as your claiming everyone else to be .........


they couldn't make the nationalised industries work, billions were being pumped in by the taxpayer to shore them up

billions that could have gone elsewhere

if the unions played the game, it genuinely could have worked but they saw the bosses as the enemy

name me one successful business making money, where workers and bosses are continually at loggerheads?

haemorrhaging money for years = shut it or let someone else try


The problem is that the middle way has been lost. Some things are better privatised, some things aren't (though everything sold off seems criminally undervalued). And nothing essential should be privatised without some heavy duty regulation in place -- price fixing energy companies anyone?
The tax payer STILL props up the power industry, the railways, and, when the shit hits the fan, private enterprises deemed too big to fail.
My taxes are paying for HS2, my taxes are paying for the Chinese to build a nuclear power station, and yet it's private companies that will make huge profits. In many cases companies avoiding paying their own taxes... run by people who probably avoid paying their full whack too. There is something rotten in the state of Denmark.


like a lot of things mate, the answer lies in the grey/middle

we do seem to have an 'all in' mentality which is flawed

soft brexit anyone?
0 x
NO SURRENDER

User avatar
h69
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby h69 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:59 am

This is hilarious :

1 x

Hammerwell
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 4:21 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby Hammerwell » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:23 pm




I think this should sum up most of our arguments for and against in this thread ....... Btw it's a very well know world banker and not someone who is in their shed ..... Part one explains why he's exposing all now , ( very interesting on what he was asked to do to a child ) thankfully his conscience got the better of him ......


So as I've said , '' No political party can ever pay off the deficit ( its designed that way ) The government's are bought off once in power , there is an elite who runs the world , declares wars and put misery in our daily lives to serve themselves.
Least voting Labour we woulf of had something out of our money , I'm not saying I like labour either , but least we'd of had some services put back instead of paying money on nothing as the Tories spend has gone sky rocket and more than labours in 10 years + ...... End of the day we will never be debt free and id now question if May did get the most votes , or if any election is 100% legit . Yet so many on here calling others thick cunts for who they voted for ....... I'd say reseach further than the bbc and wake up , this corruption is going to carry on effecting all our lives and ours kids etc ...... Would also explain why half the people don't actually vote , it's not cause they are lazy it's because of corruption and we continue to allow it to hapoen ......
2 x

User avatar
Neville Bartos
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:29 am
Location: Flyyyyyyyyyin'

Re: Election Thread

Postby Neville Bartos » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:51 pm

1 x
Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations.

User avatar
h69
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby h69 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:37 pm

Hammerwell wrote:I'm not saying I like labour either , but least we'd of had some services put back instead of paying money on nothing as the Tories spend has gone sky rocket and more than labours in 10 years + ...... End of the day we will never be debt free and id now question if May did get the most votes , or if any election is 100% legit .


Another conspiracy theory Whacko !

By the way, compare the spending plans of both parties for the next 10 years. I do agree we will now never recover from the late 90s spending spree and be debt free but really.....a conspiracy that is designed to get a hung parliament...really ?
0 x

User avatar
Neville Bartos
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:29 am
Location: Flyyyyyyyyyin'

Re: Election Thread

Postby Neville Bartos » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:37 pm

h69 wrote:
Hammerwell wrote:I'm not saying I like labour either , but least we'd of had some services put back instead of paying money on nothing as the Tories spend has gone sky rocket and more than labours in 10 years + ...... End of the day we will never be debt free and id now question if May did get the most votes , or if any election is 100% legit .


Another conspiracy theory Whacko !

By the way, compare the spending plans of both parties for the next 10 years. I do agree we will now never recover from the late 90s spending spree and be debt free but really.....a conspiracy that is designed to get a hung parliament...really ?


He's not necessarily talking about the NWO.
We do see certain unelected people, and groups of people, who exert an extreme amount of power and influence over world affairs.
And again national debt has doubled in less than 2 parliament's under the Conservatives.
And that was done living under austerity, with public services and the armed forces gutted.

Btw, in many nations electoral voting systems has been specifically designed to negate majority voting. In the US we see the electoral college that can return a positive result for a candidate polling under half the vote. This is famously meant to combat the 'tyranny of the majority'.
In our own system most if not all elections would produce a hung parliament if every vote was actually represented. So I guess the real conspiracy is in not producing said hung parliament.
To paraphrase Bakunin, whether it's conspiracy or not, political freedom in the absence of economic equality isn't really possible. Never a truer word spoken in my opinion.
0 x
Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations.

User avatar
Thames
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: Election Thread

Postby Thames » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:17 pm

[/quote]
And again national debt has doubled in less than 2 parliament's under the Conservatives.
And that was done living under austerity, with public services and the armed forces gutted.

[/quote]

Nev, can you add facts to your statement above?
0 x

User avatar
Neville Bartos
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:29 am
Location: Flyyyyyyyyyin'

Re: Election Thread

Postby Neville Bartos » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:12 pm

Thames wrote:And again national debt has doubled in less than 2 parliament's under the Conservatives.
And that was done living under austerity, with public services and the armed forces gutted.



Nev, can you add facts to your statement above?


Debt has risen from just over £1trillion in 2010 to £1.8trillion in 2017.
As percentage of GDP it's up from 65 to 85 over the same period.
National debt is at it's highest level since the 1960s.
Deficit targets set in 2010 and 2015 have not been met.
Even adjusted for inflation (which includes a hugely devalued pound) the figures show a continually upward trend -- a 53% increase in real terms.
It should be noted this upward trend began when the recession hit in 2008. Though much like immigration, the Conservatives continue to miss targets and fail to deliver on pledges of serious reductions.
To set a target they had no will to enforce is a lie, pure and simple. Saying 'we'll cut immigration', 'we'll cut the deficit', then doing neither is exactly the same as not doing either.
Not that you could or would put that in a manifesto.
I love politics. Power and money attracts liars and hypocrites like shit attracts flies. And yet somehow some of us still manage to find one shitty fly more appealing than another.
0 x
Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations.


Return to “Topical Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests