Tommy Robinson

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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:51 am

whu wrote:I too have had very little time (and still haven't) but I am grateful the facts handcart and boogers suggested probably weren't there, were. Cheers Gonzo. I don't score stupid own goals like that, for the record.

Handcart, we disagree you cunt (you did call me princess) :D but debate is good. It's never personal but I was just interested if you are so public addressing child rapists and child grooming gangs. If you are, excellent.

On the subject of racism, why are Labour so anti Semitic? Blatant Jew bashing and not even hiding it. Is it to court the Muslim vote do you think?

Have a nice day all. whufc_crest :i am genuinely amused:


whu - at the risk of sounding pedantic, Gonzo’s facts didn’t support your contention that rapists get shorter sentences than Robinson’s thirteen months. I'm afraid VR evidence does suggest an own goal on this occasion. I would share your concerns however about the questionable nature of the decisions taken in those two examples.

Debate is indeed good and I didn’t take anything personally. As well as being a fucking pinko commie soy boy, I am also a member of the West Ham tribe. That’s got to count for something, right?

On reflection, I regret my antsy response to you. I was just irked that, after stating my strongly held belief that Robinson is a total and utter cunt, it appeared I was being accused of trying to downplay the child grooming issue. Hopefully though, I will be able to further explain the rationale behind my opinion of Robinson in the replies to other posters that are due to follow.

For the record, I have not until now ever posted on the child grooming issue. But I have done some work for a local authority as part of its systemic shake-up following the Rochdale debacle. I like to think that, if only in a very small way, this has had a positive impact in fighting/preventing such evil in the manor I was in at the time.

I suspect a bit of a wind-up behind your last point but I’ll bite nevertheless:

I don’t believe Labour is anti-Semitic. Ken Livingstone was suspended for his crass remark, Jezza was crticised strongly by the Party for that stupid retweet, and the other cases I know of are being investigated as part of possible disciplinary proceedings. I would agree that this appears to be taking too long but, as far as I’m aware, the recommendations of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report, after a thorough investigation, are being actioned.

My own view is that strong left wing positions on Israel and the Palestinian cause, perhaps expressed in a less than temperate way on occasions, have been interpreted as anti-Semitism. No, I don’t believe such positions are in any way shape or form an ‘attempt to get the Muslim vote’. The left has been a consistent critic of many aspects of Israeli policy over a long period of time. My guess - and it is only a guess - is that any increase in anti Israel rhetoric may be, at least in part, a product of demographic changes in the Labour Party.

I note the glee with which the right has tried to exploit this. But I note too, that some right wing ‘commentators’ are getting their knickers in a twist about George Soros’ second referendum campaign. And guess what? He’s Jewish. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out, won’t it?
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:51 am

Pennywise wrote:HandCart = Frog?

You throw around insults like "Angry White guy" because people dare to mention the obvious? Quite brilliantly, you are the only one mentioning colour here.

Shouting down anybody who doesn't agree with your opinion is exactly the kind of political discourse that gave the world Trump.

You might want to rethink that superior attitude mate, it's never going to be anything other than counterproductive.


Pennywise wrote:
Expressing an opinion which stated those disagreeing with you were "White Angry Men."

Playing the snowflake after dismissing the opposing view like that doesn't wash mate, man the fuck up.


FlatCapDave wrote:
I'm quite enjoying reading through the various opinions in this discussion, and it's certainly an education for me in many ways, but you seem to have come in with quite a confrontational attitude for some reason.

You do know that none of us are actually Tommy Robinson, don't you?

This isn't a far-right political forum, you'll find no racist Nazi types here I wouldn't think.

I don't mean this in a condescending way, but maybe you want to try calming the fuck down?


Yeah but, no but...whu started it :lol:

Look, I've already told whu that I regret the 'angry white guy' jibe. It was rather over the top.
But, to clarify, my anger throughout all this was solely aimed at Tommy Robinson and to some of the right wing tropes that have been trotted out in this particular debate.

It was not an attempt to gain any kind of 'moral superiority' and I certainly wasn't accusing any poster of being a racist, nazi, fascist, 'scummy' or stupid. If you genuinely got that impression, then I apologise sincerely.

But apart from that, I stand by everything I said.
Last edited by Handcart2Hell on Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:52 am

This is fun, isn't it? And there's more. Yay. Back shortly.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby mkhammer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:54 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Gonzo wrote:

David Cameron said something sensible once (yes, I know :o ). He said that the problem with Britain is that too many children are treated like grown-ups and too many adults are treated like kids and he was correct. We don't allow our children enough of their childhoods theses days.

As for the grooming gangs I'll be quite clear with my take on the situation.

The majority are not just Mulsim Pakistani but from provincial Northern Pakistan which is an important detail because it's very conservative. There is literally zero interaction between men and women in that culture and even then the women are not to be spoken to and covered from head to toe.

I believe that this is not helpful particularly when it comes to sexual frustrations and attractions which govern us all yet at every turn these instincts are suppressed. Clearly when this sort of culture finds itself in a Western society there is going to be trouble particularly when their holy beliefs tell them that a pubescent girl is fair game.

It's very important to understand that Muslim men get their moral compass from the prophet and his sexual exploits are not something I'm comfortable documenting on here but suffice to say it's makes Fred West look tame. I'm not talking about some dodgy Isis leaflet either, I'm talking about the mainstream understanding of the Prophets life as documented by Islam itself.

I believe that a combination of suppressed libido and religious doctrine is a breeding ground for sex gangs and that is why we are seeing the pattern repeated.

We struggle to trace the reasons behind Jimmy Saville's antics and psychology is still trying to work out why Fred & Rosie West committed those terrible crimes. The same experts try and explain the Fritzl case and others like it in the hope that there is some pattern that will help them stop the next horror.

These Muslim grooming gangs are different. Not only is there a pattern but it is reported, there are tip-offs and it's easy to spot. Unlike much of the other child sex abuse crimes we do know what is going on and it can be traced because the sequence of the events and demographic of the victims is the same every time.

Unlike the Rolf Harris's these are not opportunistic sexual predictors. These are planned and orchestrated with targeted victims and anything that is planned to such a degree represents an opportunity to recognise and thwart the crime before it grows.

I short many of the general public are frustrated because they can see the pattern that the authorities and the left dare not say.


Agreed. I think modern parenting forces kids to grow up too quickly. And there's a staggering number of stories about young children being left alone, or being allowed to wander about in public unsupervised.
There seems to be a generation of parents who see their children as something of an inconvenience. Instead of playing or engaging with their children they're all too often plonked in front of a TV or gaming system, or worse still ignored.

Anyway, onto grooming gangs.

I think you're right in that these gang members occupy some kind of cultural no man's land.
Caught between the ultra conservatism of their cultural/religious past and the sexual liberation of western society.

That said, a frightening number of men have a marked sense of entitlement when it comes to sex.
There are thousands of reported instances of drink spiking every year. And drug assisted rape is hard to detect, and reduces the likelihood of reporting and conviction.
The raw figures are frightening even if they're halfway accurate -- over three quarters of a million adult women in the UK say they've been victims of rape. The conviction rate for rape cases that go to court is 6%. Drugs like GHB can't be detected a few hours after use. And, tellingly, well over half of drug assisted rapes are carried out by people the victim knows.

These gangs appear to have exactly the same sense of entitlement. They also use drugs and alcohol to coerce/force vulnerable women into sexual relationships.
What I personally fail to see though is any moral difference between a Muslim rapist/abuser and a non Muslim rapist/abuser. Gang or no gang.

Surely the child aspect of these crimes has more to do with vulnerability than paedophilia?
In that regard I think the reasoning, if you can call it that, isn't the same as someone who is specifically looking to abuse children. It's more that young women and girls are easier to manipulate and coerce.

And you're right, it isn't opportunism, but far more often than not neither are individual cases of abuse and/or rape.
The gang aspect of grooming and abuse should make detection easier, though I would suggest the pattern for this kind of abuse is similar, irrespective of whether it's an individual or a gang.

What I still find staggering is that anyone would seek to cover this, or any kind of abuse, up.

Well thought out and considered as always, mate.



Thing is a majority of these "men" I use the term loosely,haven't just arrived here,a good percentage
have been here for many years,most I hear, have,in the Rotherham case anyway,have Yorkshire
accents,some indeed born and bred......the culture excuse I'm sorry.....NO...
I't simply a gang of guys taking advantage of a situation,knowing they have more leeway than
the likes of you and me.......because of the racist card...There is no defence for this.....
(doubt if many are devout Muslims anyway)
I've read big parts of the Koran and do understand where your coming from Gonz...
(also read most of the Old testament....thought it was the same piece of writing at times...)

We need to scrap using the term Muslim......A huge majority of Muslims I know and have met
are amazing people....friendly helpful,family orientated,and are a pleasure to be around.

Like Nev has said this shit behaviour is not limited to These guys.....Black Gangs in London
and elsewhere will gang rape young girls......Police Know....do nothing....as been mentioned
Catholic church had a huge problem.....nothing was done by authorities....Bloody Football
coaches now,taking advantage of young lads.....
That's it "taking advantage" of a situation..........

So when Robinson says.......Muslim Gangs are raping young underage girls,it's fact,but what
he saying is not against the Muslim religion as a whole,but this group of people are allowed
to get away with things because they "are" Muslim.......That's what's wrong......

The Black gangs get away with it cos old bill are scared of retaliation/creating unrest..
which leads to ..you know what....(same goes for the drug dealing,gun running shit as well)

Catholic Church got away with it cos of friends in high places....

All abusing and taking advantage of what they can....

We need to break this left and right shit....and every comment someone makes about this
topic is somehow racist.....it's ridiculous ...
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:26 am

Gonzo wrote:
Crikey, have you no self awareness at all because you've just done it again.

At the risk of sounding patronizing I'll put it simply. Your writing style is aggressive and very precious and because of that you coming across poorly.

I also noticed that you took the specificity out of the argument in a previous post to Pennywise which is very tricky of you. Everyone has been quite clear that it was Muslim grooming gangs that were the concern however you re-worded it as if we were accusing 'All Asian Males'. Firstly that's a bit devious because it's an attempt to re-draw the lines of the argument from the specific to generalised terms and also a bit harsh on Hindu's & Sikhs.

It's quite easy to show that the grooming is rooted in religion and the three holy books of Islam but you demanded proof that 'All Asian Men' were complicit. Now you know that nobody has said that and everyone else knows that nobody has said that.

You know it's about Muslim grooming gangs so to try and change the dialogue by stealth (it wasn't stealthy incidentally) is a very odd thing to do when attempting to argue your case.


Bloody hell, and they call lefties ‘snowflakes’. :i am genuinely amused:

I have indeed expressed my view in a robust, and at times industrial fashion - it is a West ham forum ffs - but aggressive and precious? Oh, please. Seriously? (And isn't aggressive and precious something of an oxymoron?)

In the light of your comments , I re-read mine. I came to the conclusion that, in hindsight, my angrywhitebloke.com dig to whu was an ill-advised overreaction. Not least because when some others saw it, it clearly clouded their understanding of what I was saying and their response to it. Thus followed a classic chatroom chain reaction, something I'm sure you are familiar with.

I have acknowledged this to whu and tried to reassure a couple of other posters that my anger about TR was not aimed at anyone on this board. So perhaps you could re-read your comments and consider whether or not you have been just a teensy-weensy bit emotional yourself in some instances? Remarks like 'lacking a moral compass' for instance? Hmmm? What about it, sir?

But let us not bicker like little girls. Instead, let us cunt each other off like manly men on important affairs of state. Here, have a smiley has a token of my respect and good faith :)

Now onto the good stuff. Exhibit A above and the accusation of ‘trying to change the argument by stealth’. Bollocks. I was responding to Pennywise’s attempt to top trump my ‘evidence’ with ‘evidence’ of his own. I merely opined his was weaker.

My contention is that child sexual abuse is not restricted to Muslim males and the figures I provided gave some credence to this. If anyone wants to supply credible evidence to the contrary - and ‘credible’ means data from authoritive sources, not opinion pieces or press releases - please go right ahead.

In short, I believe it is not just about Muslim grooming gangs. I am not saying Muslim gangs aren’t an issue of grave concern and that perpetrators should not be dealt with with the full force of the law. I am simply stating that the issue is much wider and needs to be viewed through a different lens than that of Tommy Robinson and his cohort.

Let’s have this straight: the case currently in the news attracted Robinson’s attention and intervention simply because it fitted his anti Muslim agenda. An agenda that includes painting Muslim communities as enablers of terrorism and trying to organise marches through these communities. Culture war by proxy and the mob. To me, this represents a clear and present danger to the rule of law, justice, individual freedoms within the law, safety and community cohesion.

Like most on the left, I have issues with some of the beliefs and practices of Islam. I have serious issues over fundamentalism in any religion. But I don’t need the likes of Robinson to shape my view. He certainly doesn’t present any credible solutions. And I must remind you that it was the excellent investigative work of a very good journalist who exposed the Rochdale debacle, not any right wing rabble rouser.

Nor do I believe for one minute that TR is, in any way shape or form, some kind of local hero who’s standing up for the working class. Instead, I believe he fulfills the role of useful idiot for something much more sinister. Don’t believe me? Think I’m paranoid? Check out the links and associations currently forming between him and far right groups in Europe and white supremacists in the US. They are multiplying and strenghtening. I contend strongly that Robinson should be judged by the company he keeps.

Finally, I am greatly concerned by your belief that child grooming by Muslim gangs is actually rooted in the Quran. It suggests to me you might have inadvertently drunk some dodgy Kool Aid from somewhere. It is not a belief shared by the many practising Muslims that I know. And, if you will permit me a little whataboutism, white supremacists in the US often quote Bible verses to justify their beliefs. From this, are we to conclude that the Bible really does support the KKK? And that all Christians are complicit in this?
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Gonzo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:31 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Gonzo wrote:

David Cameron said something sensible once (yes, I know :o ). He said that the problem with Britain is that too many children are treated like grown-ups and too many adults are treated like kids and he was correct. We don't allow our children enough of their childhoods theses days.

As for the grooming gangs I'll be quite clear with my take on the situation.

The majority are not just Mulsim Pakistani but from provincial Northern Pakistan which is an important detail because it's very conservative. There is literally zero interaction between men and women in that culture and even then the women are not to be spoken to and covered from head to toe.

I believe that this is not helpful particularly when it comes to sexual frustrations and attractions which govern us all yet at every turn these instincts are suppressed. Clearly when this sort of culture finds itself in a Western society there is going to be trouble particularly when their holy beliefs tell them that a pubescent girl is fair game.

It's very important to understand that Muslim men get their moral compass from the prophet and his sexual exploits are not something I'm comfortable documenting on here but suffice to say it's makes Fred West look tame. I'm not talking about some dodgy Isis leaflet either, I'm talking about the mainstream understanding of the Prophets life as documented by Islam itself.

I believe that a combination of suppressed libido and religious doctrine is a breeding ground for sex gangs and that is why we are seeing the pattern repeated.

We struggle to trace the reasons behind Jimmy Saville's antics and psychology is still trying to work out why Fred & Rosie West committed those terrible crimes. The same experts try and explain the Fritzl case and others like it in the hope that there is some pattern that will help them stop the next horror.

These Muslim grooming gangs are different. Not only is there a pattern but it is reported, there are tip-offs and it's easy to spot. Unlike much of the other child sex abuse crimes we do know what is going on and it can be traced because the sequence of the events and demographic of the victims is the same every time.

Unlike the Rolf Harris's these are not opportunistic sexual predictors. These are planned and orchestrated with targeted victims and anything that is planned to such a degree represents an opportunity to recognise and thwart the crime before it grows.

I short many of the general public are frustrated because they can see the pattern that the authorities and the left dare not say.


Agreed. I think modern parenting forces kids to grow up too quickly. And there's a staggering number of stories about young children being left alone, or being allowed to wander about in public unsupervised.
There seems to be a generation of parents who see their children as something of an inconvenience. Instead of playing or engaging with their children they're all too often plonked in front of a TV or gaming system, or worse still ignored.

Anyway, onto grooming gangs.

I think you're right in that these gang members occupy some kind of cultural no man's land.
Caught between the ultra conservatism of their cultural/religious past and the sexual liberation of western society.

That said, a frightening number of men have a marked sense of entitlement when it comes to sex.
There are thousands of reported instances of drink spiking every year. And drug assisted rape is hard to detect, and reduces the likelihood of reporting and conviction.
The raw figures are frightening even if they're halfway accurate -- over three quarters of a million adult women in the UK say they've been victims of rape. The conviction rate for rape cases that go to court is 6%. Drugs like GHB can't be detected a few hours after use. And, tellingly, well over half of drug assisted rapes are carried out by people the victim knows.

These gangs appear to have exactly the same sense of entitlement. They also use drugs and alcohol to coerce/force vulnerable women into sexual relationships.
What I personally fail to see though is any moral difference between a Muslim rapist/abuser and a non Muslim rapist/abuser. Gang or no gang.

Surely the child aspect of these crimes has more to do with vulnerability than paedophilia?
In that regard I think the reasoning, if you can call it that, isn't the same as someone who is specifically looking to abuse children. It's more that young women and girls are easier to manipulate and coerce.

And you're right, it isn't opportunism, but far more often than not neither are individual cases of abuse and/or rape.
The gang aspect of grooming and abuse should make detection easier, though I would suggest the pattern for this kind of abuse is similar, irrespective of whether it's an individual or a gang.

What I still find staggering is that anyone would seek to cover this, or any kind of abuse, up.

Well thought out and considered as always, mate.



Nothing to argue with there mate.

The date rape drug thing is frightening in it's own way. I've been out with someone who clearly had their drink spiked, fortunately there were a few of us together and we spotted it only because we knew her and we'd all only had one drink. Fucking scary how quickly she went downhill.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby h69 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:44 am

Gonzo wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
Agreed. I think modern parenting forces kids to grow up too quickly. And there's a staggering number of stories about young children being left alone, or being allowed to wander about in public unsupervised.
There seems to be a generation of parents who see their children as something of an inconvenience. Instead of playing or engaging with their children they're all too often plonked in front of a TV or gaming system, or worse still ignored.

Anyway, onto grooming gangs.

I think you're right in that these gang members occupy some kind of cultural no man's land.
Caught between the ultra conservatism of their cultural/religious past and the sexual liberation of western society.

That said, a frightening number of men have a marked sense of entitlement when it comes to sex.
There are thousands of reported instances of drink spiking every year. And drug assisted rape is hard to detect, and reduces the likelihood of reporting and conviction.
The raw figures are frightening even if they're halfway accurate -- over three quarters of a million adult women in the UK say they've been victims of rape. The conviction rate for rape cases that go to court is 6%. Drugs like GHB can't be detected a few hours after use. And, tellingly, well over half of drug assisted rapes are carried out by people the victim knows.

These gangs appear to have exactly the same sense of entitlement. They also use drugs and alcohol to coerce/force vulnerable women into sexual relationships.
What I personally fail to see though is any moral difference between a Muslim rapist/abuser and a non Muslim rapist/abuser. Gang or no gang.

Surely the child aspect of these crimes has more to do with vulnerability than paedophilia?
In that regard I think the reasoning, if you can call it that, isn't the same as someone who is specifically looking to abuse children. It's more that young women and girls are easier to manipulate and coerce.

And you're right, it isn't opportunism, but far more often than not neither are individual cases of abuse and/or rape.
The gang aspect of grooming and abuse should make detection easier, though I would suggest the pattern for this kind of abuse is similar, irrespective of whether it's an individual or a gang.

What I still find staggering is that anyone would seek to cover this, or any kind of abuse, up.

Well thought out and considered as always, mate.



Nothing to argue with there mate.

The date rape drug thing is frightening in it's own way. I've been out with someone who clearly had their drink spiked, fortunately there were a few of us together and we spotted it only because we knew her and we'd all only had one drink. Fucking scary how quickly she went downhill.


Interesting debate chaps.

I have to say that I think child abuse has no colour and no race in this country. It is perpetrated by people right across the spectrum of races and creeds.

People use it to score political points but there have been horrific child abuse cases for years in this country and indeed many others and the fact that there are muslim people highlighted more now is only because there were fewer here in years gone by so by the law of averages it will start to affect them. In my opinion it is a genetic flaw in humans (both male and female) and so it matters not what your religion is.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Gonzo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:32 pm

Handcart2Hell wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Crikey, have you no self awareness at all because you've just done it again.

At the risk of sounding patronizing I'll put it simply. Your writing style is aggressive and very precious and because of that you coming across poorly.

I also noticed that you took the specificity out of the argument in a previous post to Pennywise which is very tricky of you. Everyone has been quite clear that it was Muslim grooming gangs that were the concern however you re-worded it as if we were accusing 'All Asian Males'. Firstly that's a bit devious because it's an attempt to re-draw the lines of the argument from the specific to generalised terms and also a bit harsh on Hindu's & Sikhs.

It's quite easy to show that the grooming is rooted in religion and the three holy books of Islam but you demanded proof that 'All Asian Men' were complicit. Now you know that nobody has said that and everyone else knows that nobody has said that.

You know it's about Muslim grooming gangs so to try and change the dialogue by stealth (it wasn't stealthy incidentally) is a very odd thing to do when attempting to argue your case.


Bloody hell, and they call lefties ‘snowflakes’. :i am genuinely amused:

I have indeed expressed my view in a robust, and at times industrial fashion - it is a West ham forum ffs - but aggressive and precious? Oh, please. Seriously? (And isn't aggressive and precious something of an oxymoron?)

In the light of your comments , I re-read mine. I came to the conclusion that, in hindsight, my angrywhitebloke.com dig to whu was an ill-advised overreaction. Not least because when some others saw it, it clearly clouded their understanding of what I was saying and their response to it. Thus followed a classic chatroom chain reaction, something I'm sure you are familiar with.

I have acknowledged this to whu and tried to reassure a couple of other posters that my anger about TR was not aimed at anyone on this board. So perhaps you could re-read your comments and consider whether or not you have been just a teensy-weensy bit emotional yourself in some instances? Remarks like 'lacking a moral compass' for instance? Hmmm? What about it, sir?

But let us not bicker like little girls. Instead, let us cunt each other off like manly men on important affairs of state. Here, have a smiley has a token of my respect and good faith :)

Now onto the good stuff. Exhibit A above and the accusation of ‘trying to change the argument by stealth’. Bollocks. I was responding to Pennywise’s attempt to top trump my ‘evidence’ with ‘evidence’ of his own. I merely opined his was weaker.

My contention is that child sexual abuse is not restricted to Muslim males and the figures I provided gave some credence to this. If anyone wants to supply credible evidence to the contrary - and ‘credible’ means data from authoritive sources, not opinion pieces or press releases - please go right ahead.

In short, I believe it is not just about Muslim grooming gangs. I am not saying Muslim gangs aren’t an issue of grave concern and that perpetrators should not be dealt with with the full force of the law. I am simply stating that the issue is much wider and needs to be viewed through a different lens than that of Tommy Robinson and his cohort.

Let’s have this straight: the case currently in the news attracted Robinson’s attention and intervention simply because it fitted his anti Muslim agenda. An agenda that includes painting Muslim communities as enablers of terrorism and trying to organise marches through these communities. Culture war by proxy and the mob. To me, this represents a clear and present danger to the rule of law, justice, individual freedoms within the law, safety and community cohesion.

Like most on the left, I have issues with some of the beliefs and practices of Islam. I have serious issues over fundamentalism in any religion. But I don’t need the likes of Robinson to shape my view. He certainly doesn’t present any credible solutions. And I must remind you that it was the excellent investigative work of a very good journalist who exposed the Rochdale debacle, not any right wing rabble rouser.

Nor do I believe for one minute that TR is, in any way shape or form, some kind of local hero who’s standing up for the working class. Instead, I believe he fulfills the role of useful idiot for something much more sinister. Don’t believe me? Think I’m paranoid? Check out the links and associations currently forming between him and far right groups in Europe and white supremacists in the US. They are multiplying and strenghtening. I contend strongly that Robinson should be judged by the company he keeps.

Finally, I am greatly concerned by your belief that child grooming by Muslim gangs is actually rooted in the Quran. It suggests to me you might have inadvertently drunk some dodgy Kool Aid from somewhere. It is not a belief shared by the many practising Muslims that I know. And, if you will permit me a little whataboutism, white supremacists in the US often quote Bible verses to justify their beliefs. From this, are we to conclude that the Bible really does support the KKK? And that all Christians are complicit in this?



Firstly I appreciate you taking the time to write lengthy responses to everyone mate. I might not agree with much you say but I meant what I said about encouraging anyone to post on here.

With that in mind please excuse my brevity because I'm extremely busy.

I think Robinson knew what he was doing when he went to the court, he was aware that it might result in a custodial sentence and he was almost daring the plod to bang him up.

I've also since seen the document from his original probation which strictly told him not to record outside of a courtroom and I now know that he did have excellent legal representation present.

In short he's no wallflower but these grooming cases are a genuine issue and seem to be treated with far more secrecy than any of the celebrity nonce cases where anyone was allowed to film. In the case of Cliff Richard and Harris the plod even tipped off the BBC who were present at the arrest so there is certainly double standards.

On the KKK and Christians. . . . . you're barking up the wrong tree mate because I think anyone who takes religion seriously is bonkers. That being said I'm not concerned that Christians will blow up a bus, drive a lorry into pedestrians or blow up kids at a concert in the name of Jesus so I don't write about it. It's also worth noting that the description of Jesus (if he even existed ) is one of a peaceful man and his message was very consistent and calm so anyone mimicking him is unlikely to be a menace.

So are all Muslims nutters and rapists, no. However anyone who says that the targeting of white and Sikh girls is not religiously motivated hasn't read the Koran and certainly doesn't know anything about the historical conflict in the Punjab.

Liberal Muslims are clearly not ordered or compelled to be be child rapists but those strict ones who follow the Koran to the letter certainly aren't prohibited from doing so. The important thing to remember about that book is that it starts peacefully and ends in genocide. It is also quite clear that recent passages supersede previous ones so it is really a book of tyranny and genocide. The peaceful part at the end say's "There will be peace when the whole world speaks the word of Allah" and it's forbidden to stray from that path.

Many Muslims treat Islam as a buffet cart by selecting what is pertinent to them and they choose to ignore the latter part of the book. But there are tens of thousands in this country alone who attend Saudi Funded Whaabbi Mosques where the interpretation is quite clear and literal.

Muslims love Mohammad of course, that's why the name is so popular but just by reading the Koran alone it's clear that he was a murdering warlord, who raped children, beheaded his victims then took their wives as slaves and worse.

I've not made that up, read the Koran backwards and you'll find it soon enough repeated over and over again.

So in short do I think all Muslims are rapists? Of course not but this minority of which we speak is in the thousands according to the MOD and the doctrine is dangerous, it's in Britain and it's growing as are the Sharia courts & Mosques that protect it.

There is no real way to prove anything without copying and pasting examples of religious scripture over this website which of course I'm not going to do but I'll leave you with this.

I used to swallow the often trotted out platitude that Islam is a tolerant religion and that he Prophet was peaceful and then after 911 I read the Koran, Hadith & Sira and looked at 1500 years of history. . . . . . to put it mildly the platitudes turned out to be horsehit.

We need to revert back to a secular society as soon as possible and one where a persons right to walk around safely is far more important than anothers right to pray.

I'm done now mate. I hope to see you on other threads and please carry on here but quite frankly it's depressing and I want read about Brazilian wingers instead.
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Handcart2Hell
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:49 pm

Gonzo wrote:

You suggested there was no evidence for shorter sentences and I gave some. As for the angry white bloke comment I'd suggest you seem to have more steam coming out of your ears than most and by bringing colour into the debate (twice) you are hardly taking the moral high ground.


As for the left the whole support of Islam is hugely contradictory.

My wife founded and runs a charity for women, Historically the left were the bastions of women's rights but they drop it like a hot stone when Islam is involved. Across the middle east woman are fighting to be free of the imposed restrictions placed upon them but the left would have us believe that the Hijab is 'liberating' and about empowerment.

Gay rights is another subject traditionally protected by the left. Try and get a leftie to publicly comment on the attitudes that Islam has towards the homosexuality and once again they drop it like a hot potato. In April 2016 the BBC did a survey of normal Muslims up and down the country and 83% said homosexuality should be banned in the UK. I think it was Donald Trump who tweeted a video of gay men being thrown from high buildings (the chosen method by following Mohammeds teachings in the Hadith and based on the tale in the Koran from the story of Lott & Sodom).

As ever the Left were wading into Trump (who is a dick btw) but there was not so much outrage for the killings themselves. Once again the Left were reluctant to criticise Islam for anything at all and their main emaotion was anger for Trump rather than horror at the brutal killings.

In fact it's not just child grooming gangs which are predominately Muslim measured by every official figure but also the complete inactivity to do anything about female genital mutilation. It is estimated that over 30,000 such procedures are carried out every year yet there has never been a single conviction in this country. Once again the same mob on the left who bang on about Trump, Robinson & Hopkins say nothing.

When questioned as to why they don't mention the victims of the religious doctrine the lefties wheel out platitudes like "Well it goes without saying that we're appalled by the rape of kids" but funnily enough they never do say. Plenty of anti Jacob Reece Wotsit on their timelines but no so much about the trouble Islam is having adapting to Western values.

So whether it's women's, gay, animal or children's rights the left are vociferous enough unless Islam is involved.

Who would have thought that the political right would end up being the ones championing the rights of women, animals and the gay community at the point when the confused left go silent when they realise that what they stand for conflicts with the religion they seem to cover for at all costs.

So you'll excuse me if I remain steadfast when I say the the Hard Left's outrage at any criticism of Islam seems to supersede what used to be their moral compass

I would also remind you that it is proven fact that in Rotherham over 1300 victims of rape we're ignored and covered up by the police and local authority for 13 years because they were scared of being called racist. The fact that anyone attempting to tackle the elephant in the room is called a Nazi is precisely why we are in this mess.

You see someone has to speak about this. I have two very good Muslim friends who are not particularly devout but they said that their comunities won't discuss or condemn this sort of thing amongt each other. You have to appreciate that the culture is about honour and respect and it is not permitted to criticise the prophet in any way. So considering he married his 6 year old girlfriend then waited until she was pubescent at the age of 9 before consummating the marriage they will not condone relationships with minors because that is to cricisise the prophet himself which is 'haram'.



I really must take issue with these sweeping allegations. To take your last point first - and have another :D to show I come in peace on this one - I'm reminded of my late father, God rest his soul, who used to come back from business trips abroad with authoritative statements like 'The French don't like Tony Blair' or 'I really like the Australians' - all based on dinners and drinks with no more than four colleagues from said countries. :?

With that in mind, allow me to share with you the insights I have from my Muslim friends and colleagues. It is but a small snapshot but it suggests that Islamic beliefs, customs and practices are maybe not homogeneous and that care should be taken to avoid assuming all Muslims think and act alike.

Many of the people I know are devout - say what you like about Muslims but you have to admire their discipline, particularly during Ramadan - and believe firmly in respect for family, elders, the mosque and their community. But they also want good education and career opportunities for their kids - boys and girls alike. These are all second and third generation, urban middle class Brits , although some have working class roots. I think their outlook is perhaps more secular than some families who have arrived in the UK from rural areas in Pakistan and Bangladesh more recently, relatively speaking.

I offer this up as some evidence that UK Muslim culture is changing and will continue to change, albeit slowly. I believe social 'assimilation' is happening in the UK but it is a process that requires respect, dialogue, understanding and time. A little love and peace wouldn’t go amiss either. But what it doesn't need are right wing rabble rousers.

It is from this point of view that I reject the notion that lefties give Muslims a free pass when it comes to the rights of women and LGBT people. The approach may be different but there ARE alternatives to the carping criticisms of Katy Hopkins and the camoflaged threats of Tommy Robinson.

Animal rights? Not sure about that. Is anyone doing enough? And you’re surely not trying to make a case, are you, that ‘Western’ methods of meat production are significantly more humane?

So, onto your point about Trump and that video. I think you are conflating two things. I think the video you are referring to was an ISIS execution vid. I think it was too graphic to be shown on TV but the event was widely reported and condemned on mainstream media. What Trump was heavily criticised for - and not just by the left, by the way - was for retweeting a fake news vid from a far right group in Europe.

And on ISIS - fucking ISIS - let’s be totally clear, show me anyone on the left who supports them and I’ll show you a complete nutter. I think lefties have different views on how ISIS propaganda should should be combatted - and on the government’s PREVENT campaign - but I know people in the community work business who I have done some good stuff with local Asian kids on this.

For the record, I don’t know any Muslim who supports or condones ISIS. They regard is as a perversion. They are all horrified by what happens when the insane get religion and guns. They are greatly concerned about the threat to their kids posed by ISIS propaganda. Again, small snapshot stuff, I know, but I offer it up anyway.

As far as genital mutilation is concerned, your criticism of the left on this one is harsh, innaccurate and unfair. And seeing as we are both reminding each other about stuff, let me point out that it is not a Labour government that has been starving local authorities and third sector organisations - over nearly a decade - of the resources required to do more about this terrible issue.

We have already discussed Rotherham at some length. I have pointed out that it was a journalist who uncovered this and that reforms have been taking place in care authorities across the country as a result of the Children’s Commissioner report of 2013. The far right only ligged onto this after it became public. It was also a local Labour MP, Ann Cryer, who did much to raise this issue with the police and council in a desperate bid to get something done about it at the time.

I’m not denying that fears of ‘appearing racist’ was highlighted as principal factor behind Rochdale’s care system failure - including the council and its community partners - but there were also other systemic failures involving the police and the council’s social services departments, which have also been acknowledged and addressed.

But sadly, I fear there will be more childcare scandals, irrespective of race/religion/culture. Child protection costs continue to escalate and local authorities have been hammered by government spending policies since 2008. The system is creaking. But maybe that should be a debate for another time :shock:

Right, that’s about it. I’m done. Thanks for reading. Sorry for all the ag. As mentioned before, no offence intended.
Peace. COYI. Out.
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Pennywise
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Postby Pennywise » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:57 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Pennywise wrote:
Just have a read mate

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 01941.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 87381.html

To not talk about it allows the far right to own the debate.


I agree no subject should be surrendered, but taking a crime that is relatively common -- the sexual abuse of young women -- and disproportionately targeting one group of people is, to be frank, bollocks.



OK, let me come at this from a different angle, do you think that, say, a lone sick bastard grooming a girl online and then raping said girl and these "grooming gangs" should be classified and treated the same way?
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