Tommy Robinson

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Neville Bartos
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Neville Bartos » Thu May 31, 2018 4:08 pm

Pennywise wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
Surely you're falling into voicing the same kind of tropes as the likes of Robinson here, mate?
As if grooming and the sexual assault of children and young women is only ever carried out by Asian gangs. The cultural difference isn't the crime, it's the modus operandi.

And the reasons for any media blackout of this specific case have been pointed out.

There were 65000 violent sexual crimes recorded in the UK last year, and over 1 million incidents of abuse. That is a vast problem. And not one specific to Asians or Muslims.
Just have a read mate

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 01941.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 87381.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To not talk about it allows the far right to own the debate.
I agree no subject should be surrendered, but taking a crime that is relatively common -- the sexual abuse of young women -- and disproportionately targeting one group of people is, to be frank, bollocks.

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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by whu » Thu May 31, 2018 4:33 pm

Handcart2Hell wrote:
Gonzo wrote:

It wasn't the expressing of the point of view mate, it was the angry and finger pointing way in which you did it that will get peoples backs up. Clearly your above post is calmer and more measured but don't come into an argument swinging a baseball bat then act surprised when you get a reaction.

Many of us on here have been conversing on one forum or another for well over 10 years and we often disagree on many subjects yet remain friends.

This is an open forum and pretty much anything goes in terms of debate but if your default setting is 'offended' and your opening gambit is name calling then your finger is well off the pulse on how we usually discuss things.

It is okay to just disagree and present your side of the argument but if somebody replying and countering that argument makes you froth at the mouth then you're probably not suited to a forum.
Well fucking well excuse me! Where, exactly, have I been 'finger pointing', 'swinging a baseball bat' or 'frothing at the mouth'? You may well be referring to my 'angry white bloke' comment. Perhaps, in my later criticism of the intemperate comments of others it was somewhat hypocritical of me but, to put it into its full context, I considered it at the time to be a proportional response to the comments made to me by whu. Read the exchange for yourself.

As far as the rest of your patronising comments are concerned, you need to have a word with yourself. It seems to me that as how 'we usually discuss things around here' is to turn into a baying, hysterical mob whenever anyone expresses a view that is slightly to the left of Attilla the Hun.
keep schtum, angry non-whitey :lol: :lol:

if some of your replies are short before the more composed reply, fuck me .... i'd better neck a few strong coffees :lol:
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Neville Bartos » Thu May 31, 2018 4:40 pm

whu wrote:
Handcart2Hell wrote:
Well fucking well excuse me! Where, exactly, have I been 'finger pointing', 'swinging a baseball bat' or 'frothing at the mouth'? You may well be referring to my 'angry white bloke' comment. Perhaps, in my later criticism of the intemperate comments of others it was somewhat hypocritical of me but, to put it into its full context, I considered it at the time to be a proportional response to the comments made to me by whu. Read the exchange for yourself.

As far as the rest of your patronising comments are concerned, you need to have a word with yourself. It seems to me that as how 'we usually discuss things around here' is to turn into a baying, hysterical mob whenever anyone expresses a view that is slightly to the left of Attilla the Hun.
keep schtum, angry non-whitey :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

if some of your replies are short before the more composed reply, fuck me .... i'd better neck a few strong coffees :i am genuinely amused:
If I didn't know better I'd swear you were trying to wind the new boy up. :lol:
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by whu » Thu May 31, 2018 5:45 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
whu wrote:
keep schtum, angry non-whitey :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

if some of your replies are short before the more composed reply, fuck me .... i'd better neck a few strong coffees :i am genuinely amused:
If I didn't know better I'd swear you were trying to wind the new boy up. :i am genuinely amused:
:lol:

how goes it wedgewood benn?
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by whu » Thu May 31, 2018 7:30 pm

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another angry whitey ? ... or just the simple truth - for a fucking change
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Gonzo » Thu May 31, 2018 7:30 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Gonzo wrote:

There have always been and always will be nonce's and domestic violence I'm afraid but it has always been assumed that they are either sick or just wrong-uns.

The difference here seems to be that it's done across religious lines and following a a doctrine set out in holy scriptures which is why the demographic and MO are always the same regardless of where these gangs spring-up
I don't think there's much doubt that child abusers are a huge problem.
What we're talking about here is a specific kind of grooming and sexualisation of young, usually vulnerable, women though.
The fact is that this goes on in every area of society and is carried out by every creed, colour and religion.

There's absolutely no doubt that gangs who carry this out are mostly Asian -- though it should be noted Quilliam, the think tank quoted by Penny, were specifically created to research Islamic issues.

Whilst individual cases like that of Barry Bennell accrue plenty of column inches, no one is calling for the same kind of scrutiny for these individual offences as they are for gangs. That's despite gang related sexual crimes against young people/children being less common.

I think this country as a whole has a problem with sexualising young people, and sexual offences in general. Germany for example, with a similar sized Muslim population to the UK, recorded virtually half the number of violent sex crimes as the UK.

David Cameron said something sensible once (yes, I know :o ). He said that the problem with Britain is that too many children are treated like grown-ups and too many adults are treated like kids and he was correct. We don't allow our children enough of their childhoods theses days.

As for the grooming gangs I'll be quite clear with my take on the situation.

The majority are not just Mulsim Pakistani but from provincial Northern Pakistan which is an important detail because it's very conservative. There is literally zero interaction between men and women in that culture and even then the women are not to be spoken to and covered from head to toe.

I believe that this is not helpful particularly when it comes to sexual frustrations and attractions which govern us all yet at every turn these instincts are suppressed. Clearly when this sort of culture finds itself in a Western society there is going to be trouble particularly when their holy beliefs tell them that a pubescent girl is fair game.

It's very important to understand that Muslim men get their moral compass from the prophet and his sexual exploits are not something I'm comfortable documenting on here but suffice to say it's makes Fred West look tame. I'm not talking about some dodgy Isis leaflet either, I'm talking about the mainstream understanding of the Prophets life as documented by Islam itself.

I believe that a combination of suppressed libido and religious doctrine is a breeding ground for sex gangs and that is why we are seeing the pattern repeated.

We struggle to trace the reasons behind Jimmy Saville's antics and psychology is still trying to work out why Fred & Rosie West committed those terrible crimes. The same experts try and explain the Fritzl case and others like it in the hope that there is some pattern that will help them stop the next horror.

These Muslim grooming gangs are different. Not only is there a pattern but it is reported, there are tip-offs and it's easy to spot. Unlike much of the other child sex abuse crimes we do know what is going on and it can be traced because the sequence of the events and demographic of the victims is the same every time.

Unlike the Rolf Harris's these are not opportunistic sexual predictors. These are planned and orchestrated with targeted victims and anything that is planned to such a degree represents an opportunity to recognise and thwart the crime before it grows.

I short many of the general public are frustrated because they can see the pattern that the authorities and the left dare not say.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by whu » Thu May 31, 2018 7:39 pm

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long one but you won't regret the time listening
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Neville Bartos » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:13 am

Gonzo wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
I don't think there's much doubt that child abusers are a huge problem.
What we're talking about here is a specific kind of grooming and sexualisation of young, usually vulnerable, women though.
The fact is that this goes on in every area of society and is carried out by every creed, colour and religion.

There's absolutely no doubt that gangs who carry this out are mostly Asian -- though it should be noted Quilliam, the think tank quoted by Penny, were specifically created to research Islamic issues.

Whilst individual cases like that of Barry Bennell accrue plenty of column inches, no one is calling for the same kind of scrutiny for these individual offences as they are for gangs. That's despite gang related sexual crimes against young people/children being less common.

I think this country as a whole has a problem with sexualising young people, and sexual offences in general. Germany for example, with a similar sized Muslim population to the UK, recorded virtually half the number of violent sex crimes as the UK.

David Cameron said something sensible once (yes, I know :o ). He said that the problem with Britain is that too many children are treated like grown-ups and too many adults are treated like kids and he was correct. We don't allow our children enough of their childhoods theses days.

As for the grooming gangs I'll be quite clear with my take on the situation.

The majority are not just Mulsim Pakistani but from provincial Northern Pakistan which is an important detail because it's very conservative. There is literally zero interaction between men and women in that culture and even then the women are not to be spoken to and covered from head to toe.

I believe that this is not helpful particularly when it comes to sexual frustrations and attractions which govern us all yet at every turn these instincts are suppressed. Clearly when this sort of culture finds itself in a Western society there is going to be trouble particularly when their holy beliefs tell them that a pubescent girl is fair game.

It's very important to understand that Muslim men get their moral compass from the prophet and his sexual exploits are not something I'm comfortable documenting on here but suffice to say it's makes Fred West look tame. I'm not talking about some dodgy Isis leaflet either, I'm talking about the mainstream understanding of the Prophets life as documented by Islam itself.

I believe that a combination of suppressed libido and religious doctrine is a breeding ground for sex gangs and that is why we are seeing the pattern repeated.

We struggle to trace the reasons behind Jimmy Saville's antics and psychology is still trying to work out why Fred & Rosie West committed those terrible crimes. The same experts try and explain the Fritzl case and others like it in the hope that there is some pattern that will help them stop the next horror.

These Muslim grooming gangs are different. Not only is there a pattern but it is reported, there are tip-offs and it's easy to spot. Unlike much of the other child sex abuse crimes we do know what is going on and it can be traced because the sequence of the events and demographic of the victims is the same every time.

Unlike the Rolf Harris's these are not opportunistic sexual predictors. These are planned and orchestrated with targeted victims and anything that is planned to such a degree represents an opportunity to recognise and thwart the crime before it grows.

I short many of the general public are frustrated because they can see the pattern that the authorities and the left dare not say.
Agreed. I think modern parenting forces kids to grow up too quickly. And there's a staggering number of stories about young children being left alone, or being allowed to wander about in public unsupervised.
There seems to be a generation of parents who see their children as something of an inconvenience. Instead of playing or engaging with their children they're all too often plonked in front of a TV or gaming system, or worse still ignored.

Anyway, onto grooming gangs.

I think you're right in that these gang members occupy some kind of cultural no man's land.
Caught between the ultra conservatism of their cultural/religious past and the sexual liberation of western society.

That said, a frightening number of men have a marked sense of entitlement when it comes to sex.
There are thousands of reported instances of drink spiking every year. And drug assisted rape is hard to detect, and reduces the likelihood of reporting and conviction.
The raw figures are frightening even if they're halfway accurate -- over three quarters of a million adult women in the UK say they've been victims of rape. The conviction rate for rape cases that go to court is 6%. Drugs like GHB can't be detected a few hours after use. And, tellingly, well over half of drug assisted rapes are carried out by people the victim knows.

These gangs appear to have exactly the same sense of entitlement. They also use drugs and alcohol to coerce/force vulnerable women into sexual relationships.
What I personally fail to see though is any moral difference between a Muslim rapist/abuser and a non Muslim rapist/abuser. Gang or no gang.

Surely the child aspect of these crimes has more to do with vulnerability than paedophilia?
In that regard I think the reasoning, if you can call it that, isn't the same as someone who is specifically looking to abuse children. It's more that young women and girls are easier to manipulate and coerce.

And you're right, it isn't opportunism, but far more often than not neither are individual cases of abuse and/or rape.
The gang aspect of grooming and abuse should make detection easier, though I would suggest the pattern for this kind of abuse is similar, irrespective of whether it's an individual or a gang.

What I still find staggering is that anyone would seek to cover this, or any kind of abuse, up.

Well thought out and considered as always, mate.
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Neville Bartos » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:18 am

whu wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
If I didn't know better I'd swear you were trying to wind the new boy up. :i am genuinely amused:
:i am genuinely amused:

how goes it wedgewood benn?
Not that well. I've been dead since 2014. :D
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Re: Tommy Robinson

Post by Handcart2Hell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:36 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
whu wrote:
keep schtum, angry non-whitey :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:

if some of your replies are short before the more composed reply, fuck me .... i'd better neck a few strong coffees :i am genuinely amused:
If I didn't know better I'd swear you were trying to wind the new boy up. :i am genuinely amused:
If he was, consider it job fucking done :D
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