F1, 2018

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Gandalf
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Gandalf » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:45 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:I was sure that stewards investigation was going to end up in at least a 5 second penalty, and a demotion.
Does the 'I had a long prayer before the race' stuff not come across as a bit American? That and all the 'blessed' comments from Hamilton do get on my tits.


I think if that had happened last year he would have got that penalty. But as the general consensus was the stewards had been throwing penalties around like confetti there's been a general push to be more lenient from this season on. And rightly so in my book!

As for Lewis and his mate upstairs, he is laying it on a bit thick these days. I don't like to see it. Nor do I like to hear him tell every crowd how they are the best. But it's all minor criticisms. We are undoubtedly witnessing one of the all-time greats right now - so let's just enjoy that!
My all-time favourite driver is Nigel Mansell. I just loved to watch him at work. But I wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner. I think you'd lose the will to live after three hours with him!

Lewis, for all his faults, ain't a bad guy!
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Neville Bartos
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Neville Bartos » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:01 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:I was sure that stewards investigation was going to end up in at least a 5 second penalty, and a demotion.
Does the 'I had a long prayer before the race' stuff not come across as a bit American? That and all the 'blessed' comments from Hamilton do get on my tits.


I think if that had happened last year he would have got that penalty. But as the general consensus was the stewards had been throwing penalties around like confetti there's been a general push to be more lenient from this season on. And rightly so in my book!

As for Lewis and his mate upstairs, he is laying it on a bit thick these days. I don't like to see it. Nor do I like to hear him tell every crowd how they are the best. But it's all minor criticisms. We are undoubtedly witnessing one of the all-time greats right now - so let's just enjoy that!
My all-time favourite driver is Nigel Mansell. I just loved to watch him at work. But I wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner. I think you'd lose the will to live after three hours with him!

Lewis, for all his faults, ain't a bad guy!


Agreed, mate. It's just unusual to see a British sportsman doing the god squad thing.
I remember Jonathan Edwards banging on about religion many years ago, refusing to compete on a Sunday, etc. Apparently he's an atheist now, and regrets missing all those competitions.

Hamilton's an exceptionally quick driver, no doubt. And in recent years his race craft has improved too.
But whilst it's good to see an Englishman do well, I can't say he garners the same affection I've had for Senna, Rossi, Sheen, McRae or, Rohrl.
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mkhammer
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby mkhammer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:36 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
mkhammer wrote:Vettel...... :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused: :i am genuinely amused:


Was it just me or did he sound like he was crying when he was swearing on the radio?
Still it was nice to hear a good old English 'fuck sake'.



Yeah the one thing Brits are good at........Swearing.........Scots have it perfected,,,,
it's a work of art....tho not as stylish as the Italians, the poets of swearing......."Vaffanculo"
just roles off the tongue........ "Bastardo"....that O makes all the difference...very clever... :lol:
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mkhammer
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby mkhammer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:10 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
I think if that had happened last year he would have got that penalty. But as the general consensus was the stewards had been throwing penalties around like confetti there's been a general push to be more lenient from this season on. And rightly so in my book!

As for Lewis and his mate upstairs, he is laying it on a bit thick these days. I don't like to see it. Nor do I like to hear him tell every crowd how they are the best. But it's all minor criticisms. We are undoubtedly witnessing one of the all-time greats right now - so let's just enjoy that!
My all-time favourite driver is Nigel Mansell. I just loved to watch him at work. But I wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner. I think you'd lose the will to live after three hours with him!

Lewis, for all his faults, ain't a bad guy!


Agreed, mate. It's just unusual to see a British sportsman doing the god squad thing.
I remember Jonathan Edwards banging on about religion many years ago, refusing to compete on a Sunday, etc. Apparently he's an atheist now, and regrets missing all those competitions.

Hamilton's an exceptionally quick driver, no doubt. And in recent years his race craft has improved too.
But whilst it's good to see an Englishman do well, I can't say he garners the same affection I've had for Senna, Rossi, Sheen, McRae or, Rohrl.



Don't see what happened warranted to much TBH ,but might be construed as dangerous
if a car was following close by I spose...
Being a bit cynical here but,is it in everyones interests to keep the title fight as close
as possible.....and maybe some decisions reflect this...

Hamilton,knocking on door of being best of his/our generation for me,think his proved
he's up there with the Prost's,Sennas,Shumachers...
Best of all time is a hard call.....Fangio,Clark,Stewart others,..Tough picking one who's the best..
Bit like footie....can only be the best of your Generation..

But Rossi on a Bike, Hard not to say he's the best ever.....just a genius....

But Ham......I like him.......seems patronising at times...but think he means it....
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Noni
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Noni » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:03 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:I was sure that stewards investigation was going to end up in at least a 5 second penalty, and a demotion.
Does the 'I had a long prayer before the race' stuff not come across as a bit American? That and all the 'blessed' comments from Hamilton do get on my tits.


I think if that had happened last year he would have got that penalty. But as the general consensus was the stewards had been throwing penalties around like confetti there's been a general push to be more lenient from this season on. And rightly so in my book!

As for Lewis and his mate upstairs, he is laying it on a bit thick these days. I don't like to see it. Nor do I like to hear him tell every crowd how they are the best. But it's all minor criticisms. We are undoubtedly witnessing one of the all-time greats right now - so let's just enjoy that!
My all-time favourite driver is Nigel Mansell. I just loved to watch him at work. But I wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner. I think you'd lose the will to live after three hours with him!

Lewis, for all his faults, ain't a bad guy!


I am also a huge fan of Nigel Mansell too. Though bad luck has played its path with him. Could never understand Frank Williams motives during those 90s era signings. 2 British WC and he sacks them both after winning. :?

Reading some of the media reports on Hamilton, it was purely a minor offence under a safety car. No other cars were involved. So no penalty was awarded. Though a slap on the wrist was the only offence thrown at both the team & driver. It was classed as one of his best winning periods.
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Noni
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Noni » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:16 pm

Force India ...

Quite sad news if true. There are rumours that Force India will be filing for controlled bankruptcy this week corresponding to the American Chapter 11 model. Under this model, the team/entity will live to fight another day, but the ownership would change hands. The creditors thus will get their money later.

No name has been specified about the potential owner but it could be either Lawrence Stroll, BWT or a New York based fund investment company.

Because of this, the entire driver market may get rattled.

Regarding Williams…

While running an F1 team a very costly, it would prove far more costly for F1 as a whole if they lost one of the most iconic teams of all time.
And while in the past many teams have come and gone, none of those could amass the resume of Williams if you piled their accomplishments together.

If Liberty Media is smart, they would help Williams (and FI – They might be called Force India but Jordan Blood still flows through their vascular system,
and THAT… in and of itself is worth preserving) remain afloat until the new distribution model is implemented. Perhaps Bernie Ecclestone can step up
to the plate and help one of his greatest supporters in Sir Frank Williams.

As much as I want Williams to succeed, I do believe Williams internal management structure needs to be criticized as well. I believe the falling out with BMW in 2005 was the start of their decline. Two years previous, they were fighting for the championship and had good drivers with Montoya and Ralf with the most powerful engine at the time.
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Gandalf
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Gandalf » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:02 pm

Noni wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
I think if that had happened last year he would have got that penalty. But as the general consensus was the stewards had been throwing penalties around like confetti there's been a general push to be more lenient from this season on. And rightly so in my book!

As for Lewis and his mate upstairs, he is laying it on a bit thick these days. I don't like to see it. Nor do I like to hear him tell every crowd how they are the best. But it's all minor criticisms. We are undoubtedly witnessing one of the all-time greats right now - so let's just enjoy that!
My all-time favourite driver is Nigel Mansell. I just loved to watch him at work. But I wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner. I think you'd lose the will to live after three hours with him!

Lewis, for all his faults, ain't a bad guy!


I am also a huge fan of Nigel Mansell too. Though bad luck has played its path with him. Could never understand Frank Williams motives during those 90s era signings. 2 British WC and he sacks them both after winning. :?

Reading some of the media reports on Hamilton, it was purely a minor offence under a safety car. No other cars were involved. So no penalty was awarded. Though a slap on the wrist was the only offence thrown at both the team & driver. It was classed as one of his best winning periods.


Williams didn’t sack two World Champions.

The reason Nigel Mansell left was a mixture of trust/money/Alain Prost.

Mansell won the World Championship in ’92.

Williams signed Prost early in ’92 to race in the ’93 season, but didn’t tell Mansell.

When Mansell found out he feared a repeat of the in-house political games that Prost played when they were team mates at Ferrari.

When Mansell became World Champion he expected to be paid like a World Champion. But Williams renegaded on a previous agreement, believing there was no point in paying Mansell huge sums when they had Prost driving for them.

So Mansell left Williams. But with no other team to go to he also left F1.



As for Damon Hill, that was a very different reason.

In ’94 Senna got killed. But that year Hill came within a whisker of winning the championship.

But the following season Hill came a very distant second to Schumacher. It was clear to Frank Williams that Hill wasn’t the one to lead the team.

Frank Williams was a longtime admirer of Heinz-Harald Frentzen and tried to hire him for the ’96 season. But Frentzen had a dilemma. If he were to leave Sauber he would leave them in a difficult situation. Sauber had recently lost the services of Karl Wendlinger due to serious injury, and if Frentzen also left that would mean Sauber going into the ’96 season with two inexperienced drivers. And as Peter Sauber had helped Frentzen earlier in his career when driving for him in sports cars Frentzen wanted to repay the favour.

So Frentzen signed for one more season with Sauber, but also signed a contract with Williams for ’97 onwards.

And Williams signed Jacques Villeneuve for the ’96 season.

This meant the driver line-up for ’97 was already set in ‘95 – Villeneuve and Frentzen, and no place for Hill.

But, as we now know, Hill went on to become World Champion in ’96. That left Williams with a PR nightmare (again!) but with two watertight contracts it would have been too expensive to keep Hill in place of one of the other drivers.

So he wasn’t actually sacked. It’s just his contract wasn’t renewed.



It’s also worth remembering the Prost became World Champion in ’93 – and then retired. So Williams have actually lost three reigning World Champions.
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Gandalf
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby Gandalf » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Noni wrote:Force India ...

Quite sad news if true. There are rumours that Force India will be filing for controlled bankruptcy this week corresponding to the American Chapter 11 model. Under this model, the team/entity will live to fight another day, but the ownership would change hands. The creditors thus will get their money later.

No name has been specified about the potential owner but it could be either Lawrence Stroll, BWT or a New York based fund investment company.

Because of this, the entire driver market may get rattled.

Regarding Williams…

While running an F1 team a very costly, it would prove far more costly for F1 as a whole if they lost one of the most iconic teams of all time.
And while in the past many teams have come and gone, none of those could amass the resume of Williams if you piled their accomplishments together.

If Liberty Media is smart, they would help Williams (and FI – They might be called Force India but Jordan Blood still flows through their vascular system,
and THAT… in and of itself is worth preserving) remain afloat until the new distribution model is implemented. Perhaps Bernie Ecclestone can step up
to the plate and help one of his greatest supporters in Sir Frank Williams.

As much as I want Williams to succeed, I do believe Williams internal management structure needs to be criticized as well. I believe the falling out with BMW in 2005 was the start of their decline. Two years previous, they were fighting for the championship and had good drivers with Montoya and Ralf with the most powerful engine at the time.


Agreed it would be sad news if Force India folded but I think it would be good news if they changed ownership. Do we really need people like Mallya in the sport?
That team works wonders on a little budget and as the budget cuts come into play they will be a serious force to be reckoned with.
My money would be on Stroll taking over.
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OZHAMMER
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby OZHAMMER » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:34 am

Gandalf wrote:
Noni wrote:
I am also a huge fan of Nigel Mansell too. Though bad luck has played its path with him. Could never understand Frank Williams motives during those 90s era signings. 2 British WC and he sacks them both after winning. :?

Reading some of the media reports on Hamilton, it was purely a minor offence under a safety car. No other cars were involved. So no penalty was awarded. Though a slap on the wrist was the only offence thrown at both the team & driver. It was classed as one of his best winning periods.


Williams didn’t sack two World Champions.

The reason Nigel Mansell left was a mixture of trust/money/Alain Prost.

Mansell won the World Championship in ’92.

Williams signed Prost early in ’92 to race in the ’93 season, but didn’t tell Mansell.

When Mansell found out he feared a repeat of the in-house political games that Prost played when they were team mates at Ferrari.

When Mansell became World Champion he expected to be paid like a World Champion. But Williams renegaded on a previous agreement, believing there was no point in paying Mansell huge sums when they had Prost driving for them.

So Mansell left Williams. But with no other team to go to he also left F1.



As for Damon Hill, that was a very different reason.

In ’94 Senna got killed. But that year Hill came within a whisker of winning the championship.

But the following season Hill came a very distant second to Schumacher. It was clear to Frank Williams that Hill wasn’t the one to lead the team.

Frank Williams was a longtime admirer of Heinz-Harald Frentzen and tried to hire him for the ’96 season. But Frentzen had a dilemma. If he were to leave Sauber he would leave them in a difficult situation. Sauber had recently lost the services of Karl Wendlinger due to serious injury, and if Frentzen also left that would mean Sauber going into the ’96 season with two inexperienced drivers. And as Peter Sauber had helped Frentzen earlier in his career when driving for him in sports cars Frentzen wanted to repay the favour.

So Frentzen signed for one more season with Sauber, but also signed a contract with Williams for ’97 onwards.

And Williams signed Jacques Villeneuve for the ’96 season.

This meant the driver line-up for ’97 was already set in ‘95 – Villeneuve and Frentzen, and no place for Hill.

But, as we now know, Hill went on to become World Champion in ’96. That left Williams with a PR nightmare (again!) but with two watertight contracts it would have been too expensive to keep Hill in place of one of the other drivers.

So he wasn’t actually sacked. It’s just his contract wasn’t renewed.



It’s also worth remembering the Prost became World Champion in ’93 – and then retired. So Williams have actually lost three reigning World Champions.


Very interesting.
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mkhammer
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Re: F1, 2018

Postby mkhammer » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:52 am

OZHAMMER wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Williams didn’t sack two World Champions.

The reason Nigel Mansell left was a mixture of trust/money/Alain Prost.

Mansell won the World Championship in ’92.

Williams signed Prost early in ’92 to race in the ’93 season, but didn’t tell Mansell.

When Mansell found out he feared a repeat of the in-house political games that Prost played when they were team mates at Ferrari.

When Mansell became World Champion he expected to be paid like a World Champion. But Williams renegaded on a previous agreement, believing there was no point in paying Mansell huge sums when they had Prost driving for them.

So Mansell left Williams. But with no other team to go to he also left F1.



As for Damon Hill, that was a very different reason.

In ’94 Senna got killed. But that year Hill came within a whisker of winning the championship.

But the following season Hill came a very distant second to Schumacher. It was clear to Frank Williams that Hill wasn’t the one to lead the team.

Frank Williams was a longtime admirer of Heinz-Harald Frentzen and tried to hire him for the ’96 season. But Frentzen had a dilemma. If he were to leave Sauber he would leave them in a difficult situation. Sauber had recently lost the services of Karl Wendlinger due to serious injury, and if Frentzen also left that would mean Sauber going into the ’96 season with two inexperienced drivers. And as Peter Sauber had helped Frentzen earlier in his career when driving for him in sports cars Frentzen wanted to repay the favour.

So Frentzen signed for one more season with Sauber, but also signed a contract with Williams for ’97 onwards.

And Williams signed Jacques Villeneuve for the ’96 season.

This meant the driver line-up for ’97 was already set in ‘95 – Villeneuve and Frentzen, and no place for Hill.

But, as we now know, Hill went on to become World Champion in ’96. That left Williams with a PR nightmare (again!) but with two watertight contracts it would have been too expensive to keep Hill in place of one of the other drivers.

So he wasn’t actually sacked. It’s just his contract wasn’t renewed.



It’s also worth remembering the Prost became World Champion in ’93 – and then retired. So Williams have actually lost three reigning World Champions.


Very interesting.



Yeah some really good interesting writing guys...... :D
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