British politics.

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whu
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Re: British politics.

Postby whu » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:25 pm

[list=][/list]
Neville Bartos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1002541225176698880/video/1


:i am genuinely amused:


old chuka khan eh ... the credible leadership candidate for the labour party, who threw his hat in the ring for three days whole days then pulled out

rumour has it more skeletons were creeping out than the ghost trains at blackpool, margate and all of the butlins' put together

laid low for less than a year and magically, he can now c+p anything like he's a brand new broom

cunt

in a world of mostly mp cunts
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Neville Bartos
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Re: British politics.

Postby Neville Bartos » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:26 am

whu wrote:[list=][/list]
Neville Bartos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1002541225176698880/video/1


:i am genuinely amused:


old chuka khan eh ... the credible leadership candidate for the labour party, who threw his hat in the ring for three days whole days then pulled out

rumour has it more skeletons were creeping out than the ghost trains at blackpool, margate and all of the butlins' put together

laid low for less than a year and magically, he can now c+p anything like he's a brand new broom

cunt

in a world of mostly mp cunts


It was more the video I was posting than the politician who posted it's opinion.
The last politician I had any time for was Nye Bevan, and he died 13 years before I was born. :D
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Neville Bartos
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Re: British politics.

Postby Neville Bartos » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:43 am

mkhammer wrote:In a way the Lords and Commons are just reflecting the consensus of public opinion...it's split..
As you guys know May is/was a remainer,as was 60% of the party( that baffled me if I'm honest)
Yet people seem to see it as a Tory Plan ...it's not..they are doing what a democratic vote has told them
to do.

Whats happening now is no surprise to me ,we're a nation of whingers,a great country,but a fair
share of moaners nonetheless.....and from what I see mainly on the Left of politics...
To be an MP sometimes you have to go along with things you don't totally agree with.....
.....Hence democracy...Argue,discuss...resolve...that's whats happening now,but the
doom mongers/whingers like to call it just arguing and don't understand the process.
Personally I'm all for MPs of the same party disagreeing...
I'm a Tory but the day they all agree with each other is the day I'm gone.....
Vote together at the end by all means....but go thru the "Process"

I was ready for this crap as was May..there's a hole heap of people even MPs who want it to be a
shambles,and call it a shambles even if it's not,purely because it's the Torys trying to implement
it.....what can you do .....

We are in a strong position the EU need us more than we need them IMO.....

France and Germany would both leave if there was a public vote,it's just a little group
of Euro MPs that are keeping it from falling apart.....it's a dated stupid interfering limitating body,
that needs to be scrapped.....and we're well out of it....

There's a further 5 years of various contract negotiations after we leave,so get ready for it... :i am genuinely amused:


Mate, the media was full of leave politicians and other Brexiteers telling everyone we'd get a deal like Norway.
We had Boris Johnson telling everyone we'd be so much better off the NHS would get an extra £4 billion a year.
THAT is what a lot of people voted for.
Maybe the economy will suffer a tiny amount, but that's all.

So no, the government are NOT fulfilling the will of the people. They are giving everyone the Brexit people like Dacre, Murdoch, Rees-Mogg and Johnson want. Not the Norwegian model that was mooted before the vote.

And that's the trouble with such a vague and entirely nebulous question. It's open to interpretation. And the interpretation we're getting is, insanely enough, the project fear version. The version where companies relocate to other EU countries. The version where households will be thousands of pounds worse off every year. The version where austerity was a waste of time because we are heading off an economic cliff edge.

Btw, how on Earth do you believe we're in a strong position? Do remember Boris saying we'd tell the EU to do one if they wanted a divorce bill? Now do you remember what actually happened? I do, I remember all £40billion of what happened?
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h69
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Re: British politics.

Postby h69 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:53 pm

BillyDWhizz wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:Anyone see the headline in the Express?
Anyone would think the Lord's amendments were a Brexit reversal. And they're moaning about the Lord's being unelected. It's enough to make you spit your conrflakes out in mirth.

Maybe if the government had put some thought and planning into Brexit instead of making it up as they go along, the Lord's wouldn't have sent the legislation back.

And as far as I can tell 'Brexit means Brexit' is not the Norwegian model every prominent Brexiteer and his dog were trotting out as an example every time any searching questions about trade and the economy loomed large.

What 17m people didn't vote for was A) something they weren't told about, and B) an interpretation of Brexit that has little in common with what they were told.


Exactly. They keep banging on about how 17.4 million people voted for Brexit so it's a done deal - get over it. What they are not banging on about is the amount of spin, scaremongering, false promises and downright lies spewed out that led to those 17.4 million people (myself included) to vote for Brexit. If the referendum were to be re-held tomorrow knowing what we know now, it would be a landslide remain vote, of that I'm sure.


I would not be so sure of that as a lot of people have been put off the EU by their behaviour in the negotiations so I would guess we would get the same result again but at the end of the day it is moot now.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: British politics.

Postby Neville Bartos » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:33 pm

h69 wrote:
BillyDWhizz wrote:
Exactly. They keep banging on about how 17.4 million people voted for Brexit so it's a done deal - get over it. What they are not banging on about is the amount of spin, scaremongering, false promises and downright lies spewed out that led to those 17.4 million people (myself included) to vote for Brexit. If the referendum were to be re-held tomorrow knowing what we know now, it would be a landslide remain vote, of that I'm sure.


I would not be so sure of that as a lot of people have been put off the EU by their behaviour in the negotiations so I would guess we would get the same result again but at the end of the day it is moot now.


What behaviour is that? The EU not agreeing to the government's fantasy Brexit?
Wanting all, or most, of the benefits of being in the EU without actually being in the EU is a wee bit unrealistic. I'm not sure the EU is being entirely unreasonable in not agreeing to that, despite what the Mail and Sun might say.
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mkhammer
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Re: British politics.

Postby mkhammer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:37 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
mkhammer wrote:In a way the Lords and Commons are just reflecting the consensus of public opinion...it's split..
As you guys know May is/was a remainer,as was 60% of the party( that baffled me if I'm honest)
Yet people seem to see it as a Tory Plan ...it's not..they are doing what a democratic vote has told them
to do.

Whats happening now is no surprise to me ,we're a nation of whingers,a great country,but a fair
share of moaners nonetheless.....and from what I see mainly on the Left of politics...
To be an MP sometimes you have to go along with things you don't totally agree with.....
.....Hence democracy...Argue,discuss...resolve...that's whats happening now,but the
doom mongers/whingers like to call it just arguing and don't understand the process.
Personally I'm all for MPs of the same party disagreeing...
I'm a Tory but the day they all agree with each other is the day I'm gone.....
Vote together at the end by all means....but go thru the "Process"

I was ready for this crap as was May..there's a hole heap of people even MPs who want it to be a
shambles,and call it a shambles even if it's not,purely because it's the Torys trying to implement
it.....what can you do .....

We are in a strong position the EU need us more than we need them IMO.....

France and Germany would both leave if there was a public vote,it's just a little group
of Euro MPs that are keeping it from falling apart.....it's a dated stupid interfering limitating body,
that needs to be scrapped.....and we're well out of it....

There's a further 5 years of various contract negotiations after we leave,so get ready for it... :i am genuinely amused:


Mate, the media was full of leave politicians and other Brexiteers telling everyone we'd get a deal like Norway.
We had Boris Johnson telling everyone we'd be so much better off the NHS would get an extra £4 billion a year.
THAT is what a lot of people voted for.
Maybe the economy will suffer a tiny amount, but that's all.

So no, the government are NOT fulfilling the will of the people. They are giving everyone the Brexit people like Dacre, Murdoch, Rees-Mogg and Johnson want. Not the Norwegian model that was mooted before the vote.

And that's the trouble with such a vague and entirely nebulous question. It's open to interpretation. And the interpretation we're getting is, insanely enough, the project fear version. The version where companies relocate to other EU countries. The version where households will be thousands of pounds worse off every year. The version where austerity was a waste of time because we are heading off an economic cliff edge.

Btw, how on Earth do you believe we're in a strong position? Do remember Boris saying we'd tell the EU to do one if they wanted a divorce bill? Now do you remember what actually happened? I do, I remember all £40billion of what happened?



Mate you always big up something if your trying to achieve something,from selling yourself in
a job interview to flogging your car, to leaving the EU...it's what you do..
We're genned up now.. access to lots of info......find out for yourselves,what a likely
outcome is....then decide as an individual.....don't believe the car salesman/MP....

You've got the doom mongers.....saying we'll all be walking the streets if we leave....
and the Positive guys Boris and co.....saying we COULD maybe fund our NHS with the money
we save from our EU contributions..
2 sides ..one wants to stay exactly the same and be at the beck and call of a few self seeking
Euro MPs,in charge of a failing, limitating,antiquated system...
The Other sees an opportunity to get control of OUR borders back and have free trade
with up an coming countries such as China,Brazil.....even Nigeria.....huge potential...
Sorry NO Brainer to me..........

This was always gonna be the most difficult thing to achieve,prob THE most difficult
thing to negotiate........(Excluding war peace terms obviously) this countries ever done..
Why the hell are people surprised everyones arguing,was ALWAYS gonna be the way...

Personally never thought or wanted a deal like Norways.....leave means leave in my eyes..
We have to pay a "Divorce bill".....its owed,and the last thing we want is a struggling EU,
same as the last thing they want is a struggling UK...no one gains from that..

Its the anti Government remainers that are sparking .."Project fear" mate...no one else...

WE will still trade with the EU we need them as much as they need us.....
Everyone is banging on like a deal has been made it hasn't its just peoples/MPs
opinions of what they see as being best......Boris and co are pushing for what most people
that voted leave want....

Anyway there's a shit load more money going into the NHS...more than I would give it,and
more than the Tories want to give it ....just appeasing the voters.....
It needs restructuring not refinancing......
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Ron Manager
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Re: British politics.

Postby Ron Manager » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:46 am

My own thoughts aside, I often wonder if the staunch Remainers in the government genuinely care deep-down which way the country will go after Brexit, or if their stance is for reasons of personal gain.
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Neville Bartos
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Re: British politics.

Postby Neville Bartos » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:31 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
Mate, the media was full of leave politicians and other Brexiteers telling everyone we'd get a deal like Norway.
We had Boris Johnson telling everyone we'd be so much better off the NHS would get an extra £4 billion a year.
THAT is what a lot of people voted for.
Maybe the economy will suffer a tiny amount, but that's all.

So no, the government are NOT fulfilling the will of the people. They are giving everyone the Brexit people like Dacre, Murdoch, Rees-Mogg and Johnson want. Not the Norwegian model that was mooted before the vote.

And that's the trouble with such a vague and entirely nebulous question. It's open to interpretation. And the interpretation we're getting is, insanely enough, the project fear version. The version where companies relocate to other EU countries. The version where households will be thousands of pounds worse off every year. The version where austerity was a waste of time because we are heading off an economic cliff edge.

Btw, how on Earth do you believe we're in a strong position? Do remember Boris saying we'd tell the EU to do one if they wanted a divorce bill? Now do you remember what actually happened? I do, I remember all £40billion of what happened?



Mate you always big up something if your trying to achieve something,from selling yourself in
a job interview to flogging your car, to leaving the EU...it's what you do..
We're genned up now.. access to lots of info......find out for yourselves,what a likely
outcome is....then decide as an individual.....don't believe the car salesman/MP....

You've got the doom mongers.....saying we'll all be walking the streets if we leave....
and the Positive guys Boris and co.....saying we COULD maybe fund our NHS with the money
we save from our EU contributions..
2 sides ..one wants to stay exactly the same and be at the beck and call of a few self seeking
Euro MPs,in charge of a failing, limitating,antiquated system...
The Other sees an opportunity to get control of OUR borders back and have free trade
with up an coming countries such as China,Brazil.....even Nigeria.....huge potential...
Sorry NO Brainer to me..........

This was always gonna be the most difficult thing to achieve,prob THE most difficult
thing to negotiate........(Excluding war peace terms obviously) this countries ever done..
Why the hell are people surprised everyones arguing,was ALWAYS gonna be the way...

Personally never thought or wanted a deal like Norways.....leave means leave in my eyes..
We have to pay a "Divorce bill".....its owed,and the last thing we want is a struggling EU,
same as the last thing they want is a struggling UK...no one gains from that..

Its the anti Government remainers that are sparking .."Project fear" mate...no one else...

WE will still trade with the EU we need them as much as they need us.....
Everyone is banging on like a deal has been made it hasn't its just peoples/MPs
opinions of what they see as being best......Boris and co are pushing for what most people
that voted leave want....

Anyway there's a shit load more money going into the NHS...more than I would give it,and
more than the Tories want to give it ....just appeasing the voters.....
It needs restructuring not refinancing......


Assuming you're right about politicians acting like used car salesmen, bigging up their cut-and-shut as a cracking nearly new bargain. What kind of way is that to behave with an issue that will affect the lives and livelihoods of millions?

But, no it's not really possible to check out what might happen with any degree of accuracy. Since there was no roadmap, or plan, everything from soft Brexit to no deal was possible. And of course there was that shining example of non EU inclusiveness, Norway.

The doom mongers appear to have been right though. Or at least this government appears set on making them as right as possible -- and it should be noted Boris 'Mr Positive' Johnson is a big part of this government.

We do 60% of our trade with the EU or through EU trade deals. I'm not entirely convinced knocking that on the head in favour of Nigeria is really a no brainer.
As for China, it's all one way traffic. The Japanese aren't going to build cars here for export to China, are they?

If we're 'saving' from our EU contributions why is every household in the UK going to be a few thousand quid a year worse off?
Why is old Jacob Rees-Mogg's firm moving to Dublin 'post Brexit'? It's not because free trade with Nigeria is on the up and up.

We always had 'control' of our borders. We were never part of the Schengen area.
And as many migrants as we had from EU countries, we had just as many from non-EU countries. If there was ever any kind of immigrant crisis, it was entirely avoidable.
Just think about that. Literally anyone was free to come here from the EU, but the immigration we could control let just as many people in. How was that the EUs fault?

The divorce bill isn't the end of it. The lie that the EU needs us more than we need them has been horribly exposed. And the NHS funding is in spite of the economic circumstances, not because of them.

Handled correctly, with a modicum of common sense, Brexit might not have been that bad.
This government though, well, the only word I can think of is clusterfuck.
Still, we'll not change anything shooting the breeze on here, mate. Fingers crossed we don't end up relying on Mad Max to sort us out.
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mkhammer
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Re: British politics.

Postby mkhammer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:16 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
mkhammer wrote:

Mate you always big up something if your trying to achieve something,from selling yourself in
a job interview to flogging your car, to leaving the EU...it's what you do..
We're genned up now.. access to lots of info......find out for yourselves,what a likely
outcome is....then decide as an individual.....don't believe the car salesman/MP....

You've got the doom mongers.....saying we'll all be walking the streets if we leave....
and the Positive guys Boris and co.....saying we COULD maybe fund our NHS with the money
we save from our EU contributions..
2 sides ..one wants to stay exactly the same and be at the beck and call of a few self seeking
Euro MPs,in charge of a failing, limitating,antiquated system...
The Other sees an opportunity to get control of OUR borders back and have free trade
with up an coming countries such as China,Brazil.....even Nigeria.....huge potential...
Sorry NO Brainer to me..........

This was always gonna be the most difficult thing to achieve,prob THE most difficult
thing to negotiate........(Excluding war peace terms obviously) this countries ever done..
Why the hell are people surprised everyones arguing,was ALWAYS gonna be the way...

Personally never thought or wanted a deal like Norways.....leave means leave in my eyes..
We have to pay a "Divorce bill".....its owed,and the last thing we want is a struggling EU,
same as the last thing they want is a struggling UK...no one gains from that..

Its the anti Government remainers that are sparking .."Project fear" mate...no one else...

WE will still trade with the EU we need them as much as they need us.....
Everyone is banging on like a deal has been made it hasn't its just peoples/MPs
opinions of what they see as being best......Boris and co are pushing for what most people
that voted leave want....

Anyway there's a shit load more money going into the NHS...more than I would give it,and
more than the Tories want to give it ....just appeasing the voters.....
It needs restructuring not refinancing......


Assuming you're right about politicians acting like used car salesmen, bigging up their cut-and-shut as a cracking nearly new bargain. What kind of way is that to behave with an issue that will affect the lives and livelihoods of millions?

But, no it's not really possible to check out what might happen with any degree of accuracy. Since there was no roadmap, or plan, everything from soft Brexit to no deal was possible. And of course there was that shining example of non EU inclusiveness, Norway.

The doom mongers appear to have been right though. Or at least this government appears set on making them as right as possible -- and it should be noted Boris 'Mr Positive' Johnson is a big part of this government.

We do 60% of our trade with the EU or through EU trade deals. I'm not entirely convinced knocking that on the head in favour of Nigeria is really a no brainer.
As for China, it's all one way traffic. The Japanese aren't going to build cars here for export to China, are they?

If we're 'saving' from our EU contributions why is every household in the UK going to be a few thousand quid a year worse off?
Why is old Jacob Rees-Mogg's firm moving to Dublin 'post Brexit'? It's not because free trade with Nigeria is on the up and up.

We always had 'control' of our borders. We were never part of the Schengen area.
And as many migrants as we had from EU countries, we had just as many from non-EU countries. If there was ever any kind of immigrant crisis, it was entirely avoidable.
Just think about that. Literally anyone was free to come here from the EU, but the immigration we could control let just as many people in. How was that the EUs fault?

The divorce bill isn't the end of it. The lie that the EU needs us more than we need them has been horribly exposed. And the NHS funding is in spite of the economic circumstances, not because of them.

Handled correctly, with a modicum of common sense, Brexit might not have been that bad.
This government though, well, the only word I can think of is clusterfuck.
Still, we'll not change anything shooting the breeze on here, mate. Fingers crossed we don't end up relying on Mad Max to sort us out.




Clusterfuck............ :i am genuinely amused:

Agree to disagree ....as they say Nev..... :D
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