Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Neville Bartos » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 am

Taansend wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:GGG shafted again. Golovkin won by a couple.
Compubox had GGG outlanding Alvarez again.
Seems as though the ginger drugs cheat is safe on the cards as long he's within 5 rounds of whoever he fights. Fuck boxing.
As in all close fight people scream robbery when their bloke doesn't win :D

And Compubox is just a couple of blokes hitting a button when they think someone lands. It has fuck all bearing on scoring fights. None. One punch can be worth more than ten times other punches but they'd all be counted the same on Compubox.

Tellingly, Abel Sanchez had no problem with the decision.

I reckon if these blokes fought ten times you'd have ten close fights. I'd love to see a 3rd fight but away from Vegas because there will always be a stain in Vegas because of Byrds ridiculous scorecard in the first fight.

Saying that, Dave Moretti, one of the most respected judges out there who's judged around 1,000 fights over a 40+ year career, scored the first fight 115-113 to Golovkin & the same score for Canelo this time around.

He knows more about scoring fights than any of us armchair boys.
Mate, you had no problem with a draw last time, which was an actual robbery.
I don't know how you score fights, but how did Alvarez win that? Aggression? Shots landed? He had Golovkin in trouble? Volume of work?
It was a closer fight than the first, but that makes it worse, doesn't it?
As for us 'armchair boys', I think most of the time we're a sight more accurate than professional judges.
Fact is where GGG at absolute worst should have a win and draw against Alvarez he's got a draw and a loss. Alvarez gets the rub of the green EVERY fight. You'd need to be blind or corrupt to have given him 7 rounds in that fight.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Gonzo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:06 pm

Not seen it yet but obviously aware of the result. All reports suggest it was brutal so I'll take a look later after we've been brutalised by Everton!
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Neville Bartos » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:19 pm

Been hunting around just in case I didn't see something that might suggest Alvarez was the winner here, but it seems most people thought GGG won.

Lederman 116-112 GGG
Rafael 114 draw
ESPN pundits 1 for GGG, 2 scored a draw
ESPN Mexico draw
Davies (The Telegraph) 116-112 GGG
Peter (USA Today) 115-113 GGG
Hernandez (LA Times) 115-113 GGG
Pugmire (LA Times) 114 draw
Sports illustrated 114 draw
Boxing Scene 114 draw
Mannix (Yahoo Sports) 115-113 GGG
The Guardian 116-112 GGG
De Paolo (Washington Post) 115-113 GGG
Iole (Yahoo Sports) 114 draw
Coppinger (Ring) 114 draw
Fischer (Ring) 114 draw
Baca (Ring) 115-113 GGG
Bernstein GGG win
Sherdog 116-112 GGG
Bednall (News.com.au) 115-113 GGG

The press list goes on and on and only 2 of 51 press and media scored the fight for Alvarez.
The scores from 1800 fans averaged 116-113 for GGG.
So over two fights where the overwhelming majority of media, pundits and fans scored GGG the winner only ONE judge had him winning either fight.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Pennywise » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:36 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:Been hunting around just in case I didn't see something that might suggest Alvarez was the winner here, but it seems most people thought GGG won.

Lederman 116-112 GGG
Rafael 114 draw
ESPN pundits 1 for GGG, 2 scored a draw
ESPN Mexico draw
Davies (The Telegraph) 116-112 GGG
Peter (USA Today) 115-113 GGG
Hernandez (LA Times) 115-113 GGG
Pugmire (LA Times) 114 draw
Sports illustrated 114 draw
Boxing Scene 114 draw
Mannix (Yahoo Sports) 115-113 GGG
The Guardian 116-112 GGG
De Paolo (Washington Post) 115-113 GGG
Iole (Yahoo Sports) 114 draw
Coppinger (Ring) 114 draw
Fischer (Ring) 114 draw
Baca (Ring) 115-113 GGG
Bernstein GGG win
Sherdog 116-112 GGG
Bednall (News.com.au) 115-113 GGG

The press list goes on and on and only 2 of 51 press and media scored the fight for Alvarez.
The scores from 1800 fans averaged 116-113 for GGG.
So over two fights where the overwhelming majority of media, pundits and fans scored GGG the winner only ONE judge had him winning either fight.
You need to look harder, it's 50-50 everywhere I've looked.

My first watch and I had it a draw, but 6 or 7 of the rounds were so close they could have gone either way.

Fact is, had GGG not been retreating for pretty much the entire fight, the judges may have been more favourable. Canelo was on the front foot, which in a fight that close usually sways it.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Neville Bartos » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Pennywise wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:Been hunting around just in case I didn't see something that might suggest Alvarez was the winner here, but it seems most people thought GGG won.

Lederman 116-112 GGG
Rafael 114 draw
ESPN pundits 1 for GGG, 2 scored a draw
ESPN Mexico draw
Davies (The Telegraph) 116-112 GGG
Peter (USA Today) 115-113 GGG
Hernandez (LA Times) 115-113 GGG
Pugmire (LA Times) 114 draw
Sports illustrated 114 draw
Boxing Scene 114 draw
Mannix (Yahoo Sports) 115-113 GGG
The Guardian 116-112 GGG
De Paolo (Washington Post) 115-113 GGG
Iole (Yahoo Sports) 114 draw
Coppinger (Ring) 114 draw
Fischer (Ring) 114 draw
Baca (Ring) 115-113 GGG
Bernstein GGG win
Sherdog 116-112 GGG
Bednall (News.com.au) 115-113 GGG

The press list goes on and on and only 2 of 51 press and media scored the fight for Alvarez.
The scores from 1800 fans averaged 116-113 for GGG.
So over two fights where the overwhelming majority of media, pundits and fans scored GGG the winner only ONE judge had him winning either fight.
You need to look harder, it's 50-50 everywhere I've looked.

My first watch and I had it a draw, but 6 or 7 of the rounds were so close they could have gone either way.

Fact is, had GGG not been retreating for pretty much the entire fight, the judges may have been more favourable. Canelo was on the front foot, which in a fight that close usually sways it.
What media have you been looking at? Ive barely seen anyone not score it either GGG or a draw.
And it's funny how GGG on the front foot scoring more heavily saw naff all favour from the judges first time around.

As much as people might be looking for ways to give it to Alvarez it seems people just ignore what GGG does.
GGG does the spadework coming forward first time... Ah, but Alvarez was canny and clever, and even though he landed less shots he was smart off the back foot.
GGG does the spadework off the back foot second time... Ah, but Alvarez was more aggressive, he dictated the pace, and even though he landed less shots he was forcing things off the front foot.

If you genuinely think GGG deserved NOTHING from those two fights, fair enough. But I saw total bullshit first time and Alvarez getting every single benefit of the doubt second time.

Serious question, do you think Alvarez seems to get favourable scoring from judges?
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Pennywise » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:06 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Pennywise wrote:
You need to look harder, it's 50-50 everywhere I've looked.

My first watch and I had it a draw, but 6 or 7 of the rounds were so close they could have gone either way.

Fact is, had GGG not been retreating for pretty much the entire fight, the judges may have been more favourable. Canelo was on the front foot, which in a fight that close usually sways it.
What media have you been looking at? Ive barely seen anyone not score it either GGG or a draw.
And it's funny how GGG on the front foot scoring more heavily saw naff all favour from the judges first time around.

As much as people might be looking for ways to give it to Alvarez it seems people just ignore what GGG does.
GGG does the spadework coming forward first time... Ah, but Alvarez was canny and clever, and even though he landed less shots he was smart off the back foot.
GGG does the spadework off the back foot second time... Ah, but Alvarez was more aggressive, he dictated the pace, and even though he landed less shots he was forcing things off the front foot.

If you genuinely think GGG deserved NOTHING from those two fights, fair enough. But I saw total bullshit first time and Alvarez getting every single benefit of the doubt second time.

Serious question, do you think Alvarez seems to get favourable scoring from judges?
Mate, I'm not going to go trawl through every media outlet, but David Hate and Roy Jones Jr both had Canelo as did many others.

Like I said, I had this a draw, and the first a close win for GGG. So yes, GGG can feel hard done by, but anyone saying either was a robbery is fucking mental as they were both so close.

I wouldn't want a third fight in Vegas if I were GGG, let's put it that way.

Annoying really, as it is detracting from a properly good boxing contest.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Neville Bartos » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:46 pm

Pennywise wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
What media have you been looking at? Ive barely seen anyone not score it either GGG or a draw.
And it's funny how GGG on the front foot scoring more heavily saw naff all favour from the judges first time around.

As much as people might be looking for ways to give it to Alvarez it seems people just ignore what GGG does.
GGG does the spadework coming forward first time... Ah, but Alvarez was canny and clever, and even though he landed less shots he was smart off the back foot.
GGG does the spadework off the back foot second time... Ah, but Alvarez was more aggressive, he dictated the pace, and even though he landed less shots he was forcing things off the front foot.

If you genuinely think GGG deserved NOTHING from those two fights, fair enough. But I saw total bullshit first time and Alvarez getting every single benefit of the doubt second time.

Serious question, do you think Alvarez seems to get favourable scoring from judges?
Mate, I'm not going to go trawl through every media outlet, but David Hate and Roy Jones Jr both had Canelo as did many others.

Like I said, I had this a draw, and the first a close win for GGG. So yes, GGG can feel hard done by, but anyone saying either was a robbery is fucking mental as they were both so close.

I wouldn't want a third fight in Vegas if I were GGG, let's put it that way.

Annoying really, as it is detracting from a properly good boxing contest.
That seems to be the job for some professional judges -- to detract from good fights.
I won't argue too much about fight two. I don't see how Alvarez won 7 rounds, but it was closer.
But the first fight was a robbery. Not necessarily because it was a draw, but purely because one card was so utterly indefensible in it's scoring.
There's also the fact Alvarez gets this kind of headscratching judging every fight. If he wins a close one the judges score it wide, if he loses a close one, he wins it close, and if he loses solidly he gets a draw. The only reason he didn't get a draw against Mayweather was because only Ross had his Canelo glasses on.

I remember when Lewis fought Holyfield first time and he got shafted, but people forget because even though the rematch was a closer fight justice was sort of served.
This just stinks of corruption.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Pennywise » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:27 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Pennywise wrote:
Mate, I'm not going to go trawl through every media outlet, but David Hate and Roy Jones Jr both had Canelo as did many others.

Like I said, I had this a draw, and the first a close win for GGG. So yes, GGG can feel hard done by, but anyone saying either was a robbery is fucking mental as they were both so close.

I wouldn't want a third fight in Vegas if I were GGG, let's put it that way.

Annoying really, as it is detracting from a properly good boxing contest.
That seems to be the job for some professional judges -- to detract from good fights.
I won't argue too much about fight two. I don't see how Alvarez won 7 rounds, but it was closer.
But the first fight was a robbery. Not necessarily because it was a draw, but purely because one card was so utterly indefensible in it's scoring.
There's also the fact Alvarez gets this kind of headscratching judging every fight. If he wins a close one the judges score it wide, if he loses a close one, he wins it close, and if he loses solidly he gets a draw. The only reason he didn't get a draw against Mayweather was because only Ross had his Canelo glasses on.

I remember when Lewis fought Holyfield first time and he got shafted, but people forget because even though the rematch was a closer fight justice was sort of served.
This just stinks of corruption.
Do you agree that many of the rounds could have been scored either way?
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Neville Bartos » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:26 pm

Pennywise wrote:
Neville Bartos wrote:
That seems to be the job for some professional judges -- to detract from good fights.
I won't argue too much about fight two. I don't see how Alvarez won 7 rounds, but it was closer.
But the first fight was a robbery. Not necessarily because it was a draw, but purely because one card was so utterly indefensible in it's scoring.
There's also the fact Alvarez gets this kind of headscratching judging every fight. If he wins a close one the judges score it wide, if he loses a close one, he wins it close, and if he loses solidly he gets a draw. The only reason he didn't get a draw against Mayweather was because only Ross had his Canelo glasses on.

I remember when Lewis fought Holyfield first time and he got shafted, but people forget because even though the rematch was a closer fight justice was sort of served.
This just stinks of corruption.
Do you agree that many of the rounds could have been scored either way?
Irrespective it's funny how those close rounds ALWAYS go Alvarez's way.
ODLH has apparently written an open letter to fans moaning about the reaction to the decision. I guess he's upset the fans can't be as easily manipulated as the judges.
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Re: Golovkin v Canelo II - September 15th

Post by Pennywise » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:54 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Pennywise wrote:
Do you agree that many of the rounds could have been scored either way?
Irrespective it's funny how those close rounds ALWAYS go Alvarez's way.
ODLH has apparently written an open letter to fans moaning about the reaction to the decision. I guess he's upset the fans can't be as easily manipulated as the judges.
Always....unless he's fighting Mayweather you mean? :lol:

I get people don't like Alvarez mate, I wanted a GGG win, but this screaming about the decision is ridiculous. I've seen some absolute shockers in Vegas, the Lewis example was a good one, more recently Bradley SD'ing the Pac-man; they were genuine robberies, this just wasn't.

7/8 of those rounds could have gone either way, so how anyone can complain that the verdict was a "robbery" when the decision was literally a point either way is beyond me.

Those close rounds didn't ALWAYS go to Alvarez in this fight either....look at the scorecards, it was fucking close, Golovkin got a good number of them, just not enough. One in fact.
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