Neville Bartos wrote: ↑
Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am
Whiskyman wrote: ↑
Thu May 16, 2019 2:37 am
If you believe the printed media is pro Remain you must be reading the wrong papers. And anyone who is influenced by groups of people, irrespective of their political or personal beliefs, waddling along waving placards and shouting slogans shouldn't have the right to fucking well vote anyway imo. But you are correct about the need for so called single issue parties to have some form of power base.
However the only way that is ever going to happen is with some form of proportional representation. At the moment the Tories and Labour are a "one size fits all" model. FFS the Brexit issue has really thrown together some strange bedfellows. Fleas-Dogg & Diane Abbott FFS. One dreads to think what any progeny of that unholy liaison would resemble. Of course both those individuals are not only anti EU but very anti PR because it would remove the certainty of election to the safe seats at Westminster they both enjoy.
Let's just look at some basic statistical facts. In 1997 the Labour Party won by an absolute landslide, in terms of seats. They won 418 seats with around 13.5 million votes. The Tories and Lib Dems combined vote was just short of 15 million and between them they had 211 seats. So we had a government, with a parliamentary majority able to do pretty much whatever it wanted, that the majority of people in the country voted against.
It was a similar story in 2001 when Blair was again elected with a massive majority (413 seats against 218 for the Tories & Lib Dems) with an even smaller popular vote percentage (40.7%) Meaning that pretty much 59 out of every 100 people who voted didn't want Blair as PM.
I'm not just quoting these figures because I'm a Conservative btw. Exactly the same thing happened in 1983 when Maggie Thatcher secured a majority in the house of 165 MP's despite only 13 million voting for her government against 16 million for Labour or Lib Dems. I accept those parliamentary majorities tend to be the exception but they do illustrate perfectly the inherent flaw in our political system.
So fast forward t0 2015 and the emergence of UKIP. I personally have no time for Nigel Farage or his policies. However I find it verging on the obscene that in 2015 his UKIP party secured just under 4 million votes but only ended up with a single MP. And he was the bloke who originally defected from the Tories in the previous parliament. UKIP secured roughly a third of the total votes achieved by Labour, who won 232 seats.
More spectacularly UKIP got nearly 2.5 million more votes than the SNP---who won 56 seats. How on earth can that be democratic. UKIP supporters, who despite both main parties thinking the UKIP vote hurts them most, I would guess come from both traditional Tory and Labour voters. But they were denied a voice their support deserved. I accept that level of support was their peak but that is totally irrelevant.
Which is why I would like to see mass defections from both Tory and Labour to the new parties. The Brexit Party on the one side and the Change UK Pro European group. It won't happen of course but I can hope can't I ?
Terrific post, mate.
My favourite example of the iniquities of FPTP is the performance of the Lib Dems in the 80s.
In 87 they carded a staggering 22.6% of the vote for just 22 seats. That's 3.4% of the seats in parliament.
The best is the 83 election though. The Lib Dems won over a quarter of the vote 25.4%, that's 7.78m votes. Now compared to Labour it was pretty even as they got 27.6% and 8.45m votes.
You'd imagine that the seats won would be sort of closeish. 209 to 23. 2% more of the vote for 900% more seats.
Who knows where this idea of geography being the key factor in democracy came from, but it's clearly in Conservative and Labour -- and SNP for that matter -- interests to keep it that way.
I don't actually disagree...was a Lib when a kid in 80s,used to bang on about the unfairness
of the Voting System..But couldn't really work out how we could make a different system work.
So we have a vote...just on numbers of electorate,Tories say get 40% Lab 35% Libs 10% Ukip 10%
Others 5%...Just being approximate here.....Tories get 280 seats..in the Parliament...Lab get 220..
Libs 60 or so each...others 30..
We still need elected "People"..we'll stick with calling them MPs..to represent areas of the country,
So how do we decide who goes where...surely its best to have,an MP representing an area,rather than
being allocated one..
I'm not saying a new system isn't doable..Germany have a different system seems to work..
Prob is the Libs were all, still are for PR...BUT if they somehow got to be elected would drop it like a
hot potato....cos the present system would have worked for them.....Winners don't wanna change things.
Lost my thread of thought...just looked at TV to see Rachel Riley on looking absolutely Stunning,
Fuck Politics when there's a beautiful woman around...
Whiskey.....The BBC might as well just come Clean it's way way to obvious,Sky aren't far behind,
Papers,don't really read...get Times 2/3 times a week,and I see plenty of May Digs in it....
Piss taking Cartoons etc....