The Mogg is circling...

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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by BlackDiamond » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:38 pm

And the British Trump gives us a wave...Dude
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by FlatCapDave » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:52 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:51 pm
Corbyn might be a cult figure among the Labour rank and file, but it's abundantly clear that he's close to unelectable for the public at large.
He's indecisive in policy, seems oblivious to the bad press this 'antisemitism scandal' is causing, and is utterly selfish about his party's best interests.
Polls are already predicting Johnson would win back the seats May lost in a general election.
If the plan is to watch on whilst the Tories scuttle the nation, and then swoop in like some decrepit messiah. Well, even that's not going well, because we're listing heavily and he's still struggling.

What should he do? Resign. Will he? No, because his ego wants one more crack at PM.
That's because the public at large aren't interested in a left wing Government, mate. The only way Labour can become electable is by returning to their "soft right" days of New Labour and Tony Blair. And even then it would be difficult, because much of the nation has shifted to the right now.

For me, Labour should stand firm as they are. They're supposed to be a left wing party, and that's how they should remain. The job of a politician is to convince the electorate that his way is the best way, not to change his views to suit the popular opinion of the time.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm

FlatCapDave wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:52 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:51 pm
Corbyn might be a cult figure among the Labour rank and file, but it's abundantly clear that he's close to unelectable for the public at large.
He's indecisive in policy, seems oblivious to the bad press this 'antisemitism scandal' is causing, and is utterly selfish about his party's best interests.
Polls are already predicting Johnson would win back the seats May lost in a general election.
If the plan is to watch on whilst the Tories scuttle the nation, and then swoop in like some decrepit messiah. Well, even that's not going well, because we're listing heavily and he's still struggling.

What should he do? Resign. Will he? No, because his ego wants one more crack at PM.
That's because the public at large aren't interested in a left wing Government, mate. The only way Labour can become electable is by returning to their "soft right" days of New Labour and Tony Blair. And even then it would be difficult, because much of the nation has shifted to the right now.

For me, Labour should stand firm as they are. They're supposed to be a left wing party, and that's how they should remain. The job of a politician is to convince the electorate that his way is the best way, not to change his views to suit the popular opinion of the time.
For me what the country wants is some strong sensible leadership. Labour doesn't need to be centre right. I think someone pre Blair, like John Smith, would clean up right now.
The problem we all have is that the lunatic wings of both mainstream parties have a death grip on leadership.
Centre right and left have somehow been marginalised, and that's to the detriment of us all.
We've seen the Tories swerve right to counter the threat of UKIP and the BP. And for some reason Labour have reacted to that by drifting way out to the left. Possibly that's down to the rise of SJW and snowflake culture.
As for a national shift to the right? I don't think so. Despite the parties being further right and left we still had a hung parliament. What's shifted is the politics not the people, it's why our big two parties are struggling, they are forcing centrist voters into voting not for who they support, but for the lesser of two evils, or even in protest. Its a lamentable state of affairs.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by FlatCapDave » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:19 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm
For me what the country wants is some strong sensible leadership. Labour doesn't need to be centre right. I think someone pre Blair, like John Smith, would clean up right now.
The problem we all have is that the lunatic wings of both mainstream parties have a death grip on leadership.
Centre right and left have somehow been marginalised, and that's to the detriment of us all.
We've seen the Tories swerve right to counter the threat of UKIP and the BP. And for some reason Labour have reacted to that by drifting way out to the left. Possibly that's down to the rise of SJW and snowflake culture.
As for a national shift to the right? I don't think so. Despite the parties being further right and left we still had a hung parliament. What's shifted is the politics not the people, it's why our big two parties are struggling, they are forcing centrist voters into voting not for who they support, but for the lesser of two evils, or even in protest. Its a lamentable state of affairs.
Then we can rest easy in the knowledge that a more centrist party like the Liberal Democrats will likely clean up at the next elections, as they are that centrist party you're talking about, right? They're supposedly saying all the right things about Brexit, and they possess none of the characteristics that either side of the lunatic wings do, so they should see their popularity rise.

Thing is, we both know that won't happen.

The reason? Because, as much as some hate to admit it, Britain, for the most part, is sick to death of unchecked immigration from Eastern Europe. It doesn't matter if you like it or, or if I like it. That's how it is.

That's why things have progressed (or regressed if you like) as they have, and with every step the liberal left are gobsmacked. Eventually they have to take their heads out of their arses and realise that this isn't a "rabble rousing minority" or just some confused old pensioners who live in the countryside, it's a huge fucking chunk of the population.

But that won't happen, because those on the left will do absolutely fucking anything but admit to what is actually going on around them.

British citizens, and I include a lot of 2nd generation minorities in that, are not buying what the left are currently selling. They want our elected representatives to have control over our borders, not representatives who have been elected by our elected representatives in the EU. They want our elected representatives to have control over trade deals that are specifically designed for our country rather than a bloc of nations.

We can all argue the minutiae of Brexit, refer to soft Brexit and hard Brexit and all that shite, but the bottom line is that the people, in a democratic vote, have handed the Government a mandate to take back control of our borders and our trade deals. It's that simple. That's what Brexit is. And anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

And I'll tell you what, those on the left who are laughing at Johnson being Prime Minister will be the same people who'll smugly smile as the next general election approaches, sure in their beliefs that he'll obviously lose, only for the smile to slowly fade as the Tories win by a bigger majority than they ever could have hoped for under May and he's heralded as the second coming of Thatcher.

At that point the toys will come flying out of the pram yet again and we'll see manky student types with their faces painted and their silly little V for Vendetta masks all take to the streets at 1pm on a Tuesday while the rest of us are out working.

The reason things are how they are in the western world in general is because the average Joe in those countries, be it Italy, the UK, France, the US or wherever, doesn't like the way things are going. The quicker those who don't like that fact can actually come to terms with it, the better.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by h69 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:30 pm

I have friends who voted Remain and Leave but one thing we all agree on is that there needs to be a Brexit now and if we cant come to an agreement with the EU we have to leave regardless on October 31st

In business, no decision is often worse than a bad one. At least you can plan for bad decisions, you cannot for no decision.

The country is in a state of inertia. I myself would rather leave with no deal but if we have some kind of agreement then I would be fine with it within reason but if the remain camp keep trying to block everything then no deal it should be.

What is clear to me about the remain camp is that while they continue to confuse the EU with Europe and call people that voted leave racist, they will only polarise themselves further.

I have four different nationality grandparents, none of which are English and I work for a German company. That said, I detest the political organisation that is the EU, I dont like the way they vote for their leader and their council and I dont like the way the common market (which I was ok with) has morphed into a federated state. I dont like some of the rhetoric coming from these suits in Brussels. I abhor the idea of a federated army as well.
So who am I being racist to exactly :lol: For me, they remind me of the FA...a bunch of administrators trying to justify their existence.

As for Corbyn, my opinion of him is..

1) He has no real plan for Brexit but seems to want to leave.
2) He seems to be happy with the level of jew hating in his party
3) He is a professional protester like the millions of SJWs that follow him but I doubt he could run the country
4) His mate Abbot seems to hate white people
5) Would be found out when he cant pay for every student doing half arsed shitty courses at college

Just my opinion.

As for the liberals, they hate democracy clearly and that new leader sounds so full of hate it is ironic she runs the Liberals who only seem to care about LGBTQHGJFKDLRYUSMU+ people.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by BlackDiamond » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:08 pm

and here we go: Priti Patel - New Home Secretary.

...so in charge of MI5 (do they approve)

so what is funny with this appointment is, whilst International Development Secretary from 2016 to 2017 she was forced to resign due to the revelation of secret meetings with the Israeli government...whilst on holiday.

What isn't funny and seems quite straight forward is the appointment of Sajid Javid as Chancellor. I imagine with his financial background and personal loyalty assurances he was the first on the team sheet,which is exactly how it was
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by mkhammer » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:38 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:33 am
mkhammer wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:03 am


The only guy of his Kind anywhere....could do that...don't underestimate him as a vote winner..
He is actually a vote winner and a vote loser. He completely polarises opinion. He is one of those people you either love or hate.

I believe he will lose more votes than he wins. Reason ? Most of those who fall into the love him category are, imo, already onside but there are a large number of conservative (usually) voters, like myself, who consider leaving without any sort of deal to be an utterly irresponsible thing to do. Those are the voters he will lose.

Your hung parliament scenario is a given imo. But as someone else has pointed out under the present first past the post system which ALWAYS guarantees a government the majority didn't vote for, the moment Labour ditch Comrade Corbyn his successor will walk into Downing Street as soon as there is an election. Unless of course he is replaced by Diane Abbott. And given the Labour party's capacity for scoring own goals is nearly as high as the Tories that is far from being out of the question.

That's the problem with having the next PM effectively foisted on us, unelected, by 160,000 Tory greybeards and his successor similarly imposed by the will of block voting Trade Union Marxists.
Catch 22 really...IF we do leave NO Deal....which Party do you want in power........
We Leave...and an Election is Forced before 2020,the remain Tories desert the Party...then you have
some kinda Lib/Lab pact....negotiating in the Worlds Business/Political affairs...quite possibly
headed by our Favourite Leftie..... :lol: Least the Doomongers would be right I spose..

Labour have Absolutely no chance of winning an Election comfortably....see them.. Libs/SNP sharing
320 seats Poss...for some Sorta Nightmare Pact...thats it...
But Anything to stop those Bastard people hating Tories...a

Brexit was won by The Labour supporting areas of North east/Midlands...parts of North West,
Labour strongholds....60/65% Leave in plenty of areas....
Labour have Done there best to scupper Brexit....I mean a proper Leave Brexit,not this "Soft" crap.
I'm not Saying that the Guys and Girls in these areas are all going be voting for Boris,but enough wont
vote Labour next time around...Enough to let Libs...Maybe Niges Brexit Party...depends what
outcome we have...and Independents nick some or more than some of their seats...
But who Knows maybe he can win them over....like i said with the Mayoral thing...who'd a thought..

Labour got no one to come in...Starmer...Not known well enough...Thornberry..is a bit dislikeable,
Best bet for them Is Eds Bruv David Milliband....should have got it before...didn't court the unions
like his bruv did...We're Complaining bout Boris That could have been the Unions Picking a PM
as they usually do...when labour get into power......take yer Pick...old Greybeards or Union Bods... :lol:

Think most people Vote for the party or their Fav MP in an election Mate as opposed to voting
for a Personalty.....I Vote Tory,Whatever...just based on the Concept/Ideology/Attitude...
Happy to vote for the Party and let the MP I voted for take part in choosing a leader...
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:34 pm

FlatCapDave wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:19 am

Then we can rest easy in the knowledge that a more centrist party like the Liberal Democrats will likely clean up at the next elections, as they are that centrist party you're talking about, right? They're supposedly saying all the right things about Brexit, and they possess none of the characteristics that either side of the lunatic wings do, so they should see their popularity rise.

Thing is, we both know that won't happen.

The reason? Because, as much as some hate to admit it, Britain, for the most part, is sick to death of unchecked immigration from Eastern Europe. It doesn't matter if you like it or, or if I like it. That's how it is.

That's why things have progressed (or regressed if you like) as they have, and with every step the liberal left are gobsmacked. Eventually they have to take their heads out of their arses and realise that this isn't a "rabble rousing minority" or just some confused old pensioners who live in the countryside, it's a huge fucking chunk of the population.

But that won't happen, because those on the left will do absolutely fucking anything but admit to what is actually going on around them.

British citizens, and I include a lot of 2nd generation minorities in that, are not buying what the left are currently selling. They want our elected representatives to have control over our borders, not representatives who have been elected by our elected representatives in the EU. They want our elected representatives to have control over trade deals that are specifically designed for our country rather than a bloc of nations.

We can all argue the minutiae of Brexit, refer to soft Brexit and hard Brexit and all that shite, but the bottom line is that the people, in a democratic vote, have handed the Government a mandate to take back control of our borders and our trade deals. It's that simple. That's what Brexit is. And anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

And I'll tell you what, those on the left who are laughing at Johnson being Prime Minister will be the same people who'll smugly smile as the next general election approaches, sure in their beliefs that he'll obviously lose, only for the smile to slowly fade as the Tories win by a bigger majority than they ever could have hoped for under May and he's heralded as the second coming of Thatcher.

At that point the toys will come flying out of the pram yet again and we'll see manky student types with their faces painted and their silly little V for Vendetta masks all take to the streets at 1pm on a Tuesday while the rest of us are out working.

The reason things are how they are in the western world in general is because the average Joe in those countries, be it Italy, the UK, France, the US or wherever, doesn't like the way things are going. The quicker those who don't like that fact can actually come to terms with it, the better.
Nah, I'm not talking about the Lib Dems. What they have shown themselves to be over the last decade are cynical opportunists.
From a coalition government that betrayed 90% of what they professed to stand for, to taking the mirror opposite line to the Brexit Party. Call me old fashioned, but I do like at least a passing nod to some kind of ideological boundary.

Since Britain is roughly split on Brexit its a bit misleading to throw down Eastern European immigration as the single biggest factor. I bet you wouldn't be surprised that plenty of people think free movement in the EU is responsible for all the brown skinned people in their town. And, factually, certain political ideologues are want to fan that misconceived flame. Hence the blurring of immigrant and refugee, and of what is required by the EU and what is not.

I'm never surprised by the power of populism and bigotry. Nor am I some left wing milk sot apologist for the negativity that mass immigration can engender.
The EUs policy on expansion into Eastern Europe was far too rushed. And whilst there are good reasons for an economic union, I find the idea of social and political union to be a flash point for division.
People are generally accepting of change, but it must be gradual and sustainable.

Borders is another false flag operation. We've had a decade of Conservative immigration policy and the only slackening we've seen in non EU immigration is the result of an economic downturn.
Not new rules, or new policy, but cold, hard economics.
Why? Because immigration is driven by economics. Not politicians, or ideology. Native Britains have fuck all interest in working for recruitment agencies on zero hours contracts.
When I worked at a factory (in the 80s), the company employed all the staff and they all worked a 40 hour week.
These days the company employs management and skilled workers -- forklift drivers, supervisors, etc -- then it contracts a recruitment agency to supply the rest of the staff it requires on an adhoc basis.
This week we're busy so 80 people, next week not so much, so 60. They're even happy to send people home halfway through a shift with no prior warning.

It's exploitative, it makes economic sense, and most of us would tell them to get fucked after a week or two of being pissed about like that. People who barely speak English and who are used to making £20 a week back home aren't so fussed though. That's economics.

As for Brexit. Out of the EU is an answer that offers any number of interpretations, and each and every one could be claimed to be a mandate from the people.
And that's why we see such division. Not because the answer was out, but because no one bothered to ask what kind of out people were voting for.
Now, we can wander around chanting 'Brexit means Brexit', but hyperbolic slogans are not an answer. Especially when no bugger arguing for out bothered to specify exactly what that meant. 'Oh, but people knew'. No, they fucking didn't.

Boris is marmite. But then again Hitler was quite popular in some quarters back in the day, but popularity and competence rarely go hand in hand.
Maybe Boris will sweep to victory and we'll all find ourselves living the Chlorinated chicken eating, health insurance paying, 51st state, American fucking dream. Then again perhaps comrade Corbyn will come to power and renationalise everything, including your house! And as we queue up for our weekly ration of jerked shoe leather we can day dream about the halcyon days of Tony Blair and David Cameron.
Either way, and if things don't go so well, I guarantee someone, somewhere will be blaming it all on bloody immigrants/foreigners/Jews/refugees/communists/socialists, and basically anyone who isn't really to blame.
Just like we're blaming the EU now. Blaming 'them' for all the stuff the leaders WE voted for signed up to.
Still I guess it's easier to pick on a little Romanian bloke, or some faceless EU Mandarin, than accept that we really don't pay enough attention to our own politics or choices. Personal responsibility? Perish the fucking thought.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by BlackDiamond » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:28 pm

Well the cats out the bag so to speak and I don't mean Larry...

We might expect Johnson to dazzle at the dispatch box, but the evidence of his first PMQ's performance was of a fast talking semi coherent blusterer, making up stuff on the hoof.

Because of this (him) the whole thing seems even more of a charade with everybody participating in bad theatre. None of the responses are debated or even challenged.

In fact he seems to treat it as an enjoyable inconvenience,where he can play the genial raconteur and exaggerate,falsify,evade and when it suits simply ignore,without any concerns.

...he is very serious about leaving on 31st October.
30th Oct In
31st October Out

or perhaps it's just a funny phase he's going through...
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 pm

The people who write this must have been looking at this forum...

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