Gonzo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:50 amNeville Bartos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:21 am
Trouble is those North Africans or Syrians have no more right to enter the UK whether we're in or out of the EU.
This is where the 'open borders' lie sows it's nasty little seeds.
If you travel to the UK from the EU you MUST pass customs. The only way a North African or Syrian is getting into the UK without the government's say so is if they've got an EU passport. That is a fact.
And are non EU citizens looking for UK residency -- legal or otherwise -- going to stop or disappear because we're no longer in the EU? Clearly not as we've never had an open border with France.
You wouldn't believe it, but France does us a favour by keeping those seeking entry into the UK on their side of the Channel.
Now if people fear this kind of stuff so much they'd take the trouble to vote on it, why don't they know this?
Why don't they read about it in the papers, or listen to their politicians informing them?
Let's not confuse real, genuine concerns with this agenda driven fear mongering.
The kind of immigrants that are constantly alluded to -- Muslims, Asians, North Africans, Turks, Syrians -- do NOT arrive from the EU.
They arrive with our elected governments blessing and consent. THAT is the truth.
Edit: that UN migration thing is non binding. Which basically means even if you sign up to it you're not legally bound by it. Making it utterly worthless... unless you leave that part out and use it as a propaganda tool.
Took 3 seconds to look for and find that entirely salient piece of information.
To be fair mate Germany made 1 million of them EU passport holders and Sweden has taken 800,000 (possibly).
As for the remainder they certainly travel from the aforementioned places to the EU and they do so in the main as economic migrants. The demographic is male, early 20's and with i-phones and regardless of what the rules are they want to come to Europe.
So maybe you do have to come through customs (and many don't) but that sort of misses the point.
When the migrants set off on their journey they do so because they believe the UK is a soft touch. They think that they'll get rescued from their inflatables in the Med by the Italian patrols and from there will make their way to either Germany, France, Sweden, England or somewhere else accommodating.
They don't go to Hungary or Poland because they know they'll get fuck all but they do not view Britain in the same way. We are seen as free healthcare and housing and if for whatever reason they can't get an EU passport elsewhere in Europe they'll work in the thriving immigrant black market here instead.
The cat is out of the bag in Germany because a whole continent knows that they let in 1 million migrants and gave them a load of free shit. Even if Germany announced tomorrow that immigration to had stopped people would still arrive in their droves because the reputation has been made. The migrants don't care about the rules and are willing to circumvent whatever they need to in order to get the best life possible for themselves.
The Brexit vote was almost exclusively about stopping the sort of thing mentioned above. I guess you could explain to people what you mentioned in your post but this wasn't a referendum decided in figures, stats and rules.
Ordinary folk see the strain on hospitals & schools and the rapidly changing demographic of their local towns and that's what prompted the Brexit vote.
It was funny because following the result of the referendum there appeared to be much soul searching. The left seemed to be saying "we must learn from this and engage with the Leave voters to find out why this has happened". I vividly remember David Lammy saying that the remain politicians needed to address the voters frustrations. . . . . . . . . It lasted about a week and nobody listened and nobody learned.
And now we find ourselves in a position where everybody in the commons is talking about everything EXCEPT the reason most of the 17m people voted to leave.
Mrs Gonzo's dad is from a fishing village near Aberdeen and my brother lives in one in Devon. It's hard to explain to anyone quite how much our fishing industry has been decimated and the feeling towards the EU from those parts.
The other thing I hear about is agriculture because I know a lot of people that own land from shooting. We are producing less and less and have been encouraged to do so by the EU for quite some time. I believe we now only produce 46% of the food we consume in this country and it's dropping all the time . . . . . . not a particularly shrewd move with a rapidly expanding population.
Anyway my friend is paid more in EU subsidies to keep his fields with grass on them than he would earn from farming them. That needs to be reversed and we need to get it back above the 50% mark mark and keep going. Anyone who remembers the patch-work fields of the English countryside of 30 years ago will notice that there are very few crops and animals there anymore.
To be fair he's not unhappy because he's well paid to do fuck all but the EU have decreed that France is the agricultural sector. In a rapidly changing world we should really be producing much of our own energy, harvesting our own crops and fishing our own waters. However we have been weakened to such a position that we are an OPEC maneuver away from impacting the food on our shelves. . . . . . . a ridiculous situation for an Island with fertile land and an abundance of fish & coal to allow itself to get into.