The Mogg is circling...

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terrya1965
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by terrya1965 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:06 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:33 pm
BillyDWhizz wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:50 pm


Christ, by privatising politics, you may as well buy a flat cap so you can doff it every time the Lord of the Manor comes round to collect his feudal taxes!!

Sorry mate, I cannot disagree with you more. Privatisation has served a wealthy few at the expense of the rest of us - EXACTLY how Maggie wanted it.

I'll use the water sector as an example. In the 30 odd years since privatisation, control is now in the hands of a very few wealthy international investors, some even operating from cosy little tax havens. Prices have increased by over 40% and a QUARTER of the bill YOU, ME and EVERYONE now pays goes straight in to servicing debt interest (Investment is provided by borrowing rather than shareholders) and paying out dividends.

Let's not forget how Maggie nicely wiped out £4.9 Billion of water sector debts for the new owners so they could come in and start up all nice and debt free...What did the private owners do? They took advantage and have racked up debts to the taxpayer currently around the £50 Billion mark, whilst at the same time managing to payout billions in dividends. Three water companies in the past even paid out more money in dividends than their total pre-tax profits...How is that possible unless some poor suckers, somewhere are enabling them too...Oh...wait...That'll be us won't it!?

The National grid is exactly the same , the Post office is fucked, The Steel industry is dead, Public Services companies are fucking us over to the tune of billions every year, The coal industry is non existent, ICI, remember them? A world leader in it's field and jewel in the crown of British industry is now fucking Dutch...I could go on but won't since I'm rapidly approaching rant mode! :lol:

I guess you could call BT a success. If laying off 100,000 workers to re model your business plan is your definition of successful.

You'll notice how I've avoided mentioning the railways... :D
I could paint a different picture Billy. Obviously I can only speak personally as everyone's circumstances are different.
Water. I have a metered supply, pay bu direct debit and it costs me £20 a month. Can't remember what it was back in the day but, trust me, it wasn't much less than that around 20 years ago.

Gas/Electric. Monthly direct debit costs £90. I shop round every year to check rates and swap supplier if advantageous.
As with water that is cheaper in real terms to what I paid when they were state owned. Partly I believe because I now have a choice of supplier.

Railways. Don't use trains regularly but relative to what they used to cost pre nationalisation taking into consideration inflation it costs me less to get into London off peak than it did back in the day. Day Return now from Welwyn Garden City to West End is £19.10. Admittedly that is off peak. And please don't tell me there weren't delays and cancellations in the privatised era. I used to have to commute into the city by train and did so under nationalisation and the privatised version. The quality of train is now better and faster but I'll happily concede that may also have happened under state ownership. Electrification of our line massively improved the quality of service.

Don't think it's really fair to use steel and coal as examples tbh. Both these products can be sourced much more cheaply from abroad and so it was fairly inevitable those industries would wither and die.

BT's job cuts ? Job cuts happen as the working world evolves. When I started work in the city one of my first jobs was analysing company accounts and giving those company's investment risk ratings. There were around 15 of us doing that. Now an algorithm can do the job much more quickly and probably a lot more accurately. I think it's called progress. ;)

The biggest employer in the UK? Yes, you've guessed it. The fucking NHS. Government run, Is it efficient ? This isn't apolitical point but Our local hospital , the QEII. was closed down by the last Labour administration. Only about 2 or 3 years before that there had been massive expenditure upgrading parts of it. Hardly a good use of taxpayers hard earned is it ?

And on that subject how inefficient is the whole government apparatus that's supposed to be there for our benefit ? Just one example. If you have kids you get child benefit. Fair enough. But why have one department,HMRC,taking the money from you as tax, and another giving you some of it back as a child benefit? Why not simply change your tax code and let you keep the equivalent in your salary cheque?

Now I'm in rant mode. And I guess we'll never agree. ;)
Has for the Railway.

We are the most expensive in Europe,probably the world,not just a tiny bit,but FIVE times has much.

Our train services are poorer.

The whole train system is poorer.Guess What?Ours is the only rail system that isn`t Nationalised.

But the most annoying thing is the British taxpayer who subsidising it and half of them are owned by foreign companies.

Is this all for the benefit of the British taxpayer?Like hell it is,it`s all to benefit the fat cats.

Anything that is any good in this country is sold and why the majority don`t benefit.WHY do you think we have had to live in Austerity for the past 12 years?No money for this and no money for that?All down to greed I'm afraid.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:06 pm

BillyDWhizz wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:11 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:33 pm


I could paint a different picture Billy. Obviously I can only speak personally as everyone's circumstances are different.
Water. I have a metered supply, pay bu direct debit and it costs me £20 a month. Can't remember what it was back in the day but, trust me, it wasn't much less than that around 20 years ago.

Gas/Electric. Monthly direct debit costs £90. I shop round every year to check rates and swap supplier if advantageous.
As with water that is cheaper in real terms to what I paid when they were state owned. Partly I believe because I now have a choice of supplier.

Railways. Don't use trains regularly but relative to what they used to cost pre nationalisation taking into consideration inflation it costs me less to get into London off peak than it did back in the day. Day Return now from Welwyn Garden City to West End is £19.10. Admittedly that is off peak. And please don't tell me there weren't delays and cancellations in the privatised era. I used to have to commute into the city by train and did so under nationalisation and the privatised version. The quality of train is now better and faster but I'll happily concede that may also have happened under state ownership. Electrification of our line massively improved the quality of service.

Don't think it's really fair to use steel and coal as examples tbh. Both these products can be sourced much more cheaply from abroad and so it was fairly inevitable those industries would wither and die.

BT's job cuts ? Job cuts happen as the working world evolves. When I started work in the city one of my first jobs was analysing company accounts and giving those company's investment risk ratings. There were around 15 of us doing that. Now an algorithm can do the job much more quickly and probably a lot more accurately. I think it's called progress. ;)

The biggest employer in the UK? Yes, you've guessed it. The fucking NHS. Government run, Is it efficient ? This isn't apolitical point but Our local hospital , the QEII. was closed down by the last Labour administration. Only about 2 or 3 years before that there had been massive expenditure upgrading parts of it. Hardly a good use of taxpayers hard earned is it ?

And on that subject how inefficient is the whole government apparatus that's supposed to be there for our benefit ? Just one example. If you have kids you get child benefit. Fair enough. But why have one department,HMRC,taking the money from you as tax, and another giving you some of it back as a child benefit? Why not simply change your tax code and let you keep the equivalent in your salary cheque?

Now I'm in rant mode. And I guess we'll never agree. ;)
What you pay for your water (although I'd be fucking happy at £20!) and utilities isn't really what I'm getting at, It's WHERE the money is going that should be getting your back up. After interest repayments and shareholder dividends do you think that the majority of that money is being ploughed back in to the UK economy? No of course it isn't, it's fucking off abroad.

£50 Billion of debt to the taxpayer is not insignificant yet who's paying it back? No one that's who. I must imagine the Gas & Electric companies are probably on the hook for similar amounts.

Just think what the real figure is when you add in the railways and the likes of Carillion, Interserve and a myriad of others copping for taxpayer funded bail/handouts. Even erring on the side of caution, that's hundreds and hundreds of Billions that's owed to the country that absolutely no cunt has any intention of ever paying back and yet we've been put through years of austerity 'coz apparently the country can't afford stuff. No shit!

The NHS is a tricky one because whilst it is officially a publicly owned entity, in all reality it isn't. Privatisation is slowly and insidiously encroaching like Japanese Knotweed in to an English country garden. It's become an all consuming behemoth that must have a supply chain that can only be described as a logistical shit storm - It doesn't help that the decision making process in the higher corporate rather than medical echelons are fucking woeful and are probably to blame for most of the NHS's financial woes.

I can see a time in the very near future when it'll be something like this..."Oh little Johnny's broken his arm? No problem, just swipe your Virgin preferred customer card in this machine and well have him fixed right up. OK? Great. That'll be £3759 + Vat Thanks. Oh don't forget to check your Virgin app and claim the 12 free airmiles that Johnny's mishap has earnt you. That's it? Ok, Thanks, have a nice day."

I'm being fly of course but full NHS privatisation IS coming if we all bury our heads and fucking let it. I do agree with you that it's inefficient but to privatise it doesn't bare thinking about.

You'll get no argument from me about bureaucratic red tape re HMRC etc though.

Anyhoo, I digress, sorry mate but the upshot is that I believe privatisation has been a fucking sham, cleverly worded and implemented to make us all think that it's great for everyone. No. No it isn't, It's been absolutely brilliant for a few and very cleverly hoodwinked the many in to thinking it's been brilliant for them.

What's next? The Royal Virgin Airforce? The G4S Army? :lol:
Well put arguments as usual Billy and you're right about where the money is going. But the shareholders of these companies are very often big pension funds, health insurers and so on, the very things we all rely on in our retirement, not to mention private individuals who either invest directly or through funds for their later years. But I was looking at things from a consumers point of view. I often wish I had kept bills and receipts over the years but I didn't. However I do feel a lot of things now are cheaper, relatively speaking, than they were back in what some would call the golden era.

I take your point about the NHS but in my view the dams thing has grown out of all proportion to what it was intended to be. I would be the first person to argue that everyone should have the right to free,quality healthcare at the point of delivery. But imo that free (and it's not really free is it as we all pay our taxes and NI) healthcare should be for essentuial health treatment and should not include stuff like cosmetic surgery, fertility treatment and the like.

Like I said I doubt we'll ever agree but life would be a boring thing if everyone politely nodded in agreement all the time. ;)
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 pm

terrya1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:33 pm


I could paint a different picture Billy. Obviously I can only speak personally as everyone's circumstances are different.
Water. I have a metered supply, pay bu direct debit and it costs me £20 a month. Can't remember what it was back in the day but, trust me, it wasn't much less than that around 20 years ago.

Gas/Electric. Monthly direct debit costs £90. I shop round every year to check rates and swap supplier if advantageous.
As with water that is cheaper in real terms to what I paid when they were state owned. Partly I believe because I now have a choice of supplier.

Railways. Don't use trains regularly but relative to what they used to cost pre nationalisation taking into consideration inflation it costs me less to get into London off peak than it did back in the day. Day Return now from Welwyn Garden City to West End is £19.10. Admittedly that is off peak. And please don't tell me there weren't delays and cancellations in the privatised era. I used to have to commute into the city by train and did so under nationalisation and the privatised version. The quality of train is now better and faster but I'll happily concede that may also have happened under state ownership. Electrification of our line massively improved the quality of service.

Don't think it's really fair to use steel and coal as examples tbh. Both these products can be sourced much more cheaply from abroad and so it was fairly inevitable those industries would wither and die.

BT's job cuts ? Job cuts happen as the working world evolves. When I started work in the city one of my first jobs was analysing company accounts and giving those company's investment risk ratings. There were around 15 of us doing that. Now an algorithm can do the job much more quickly and probably a lot more accurately. I think it's called progress. ;)

The biggest employer in the UK? Yes, you've guessed it. The fucking NHS. Government run, Is it efficient ? This isn't apolitical point but Our local hospital , the QEII. was closed down by the last Labour administration. Only about 2 or 3 years before that there had been massive expenditure upgrading parts of it. Hardly a good use of taxpayers hard earned is it ?

And on that subject how inefficient is the whole government apparatus that's supposed to be there for our benefit ? Just one example. If you have kids you get child benefit. Fair enough. But why have one department,HMRC,taking the money from you as tax, and another giving you some of it back as a child benefit? Why not simply change your tax code and let you keep the equivalent in your salary cheque?

Now I'm in rant mode. And I guess we'll never agree. ;)
30 years ago,my rates were £2.97 per week,that included water and council tax.So that is £11.88 per month.

Combining both now,it`s nearly £200.ENOUGH SAID.Even taking inflation in to account,that`s an insult.

Utility bills have tripled in price just in the past 20 years.Only fags and booze have gone up more.Let`s not forget these are essentials that we have to have.Pensioners can`t afford to heat their homes,while some fat cat(or cunt) is buying himself another yacht in the Bahamas.

Did you know before any of these were privatised,Thatcher cleared all debts(paid by the good old taxpayer),so Shareholders made a better profit.We will take one example.Water was privatised at a £4.9 Billion loss and the whole lot was paid up by the taxpayer.
Guess what?
They are now £50 odd Billion in debt.

Whiskeyman,I know many maybe not has bright has you on here,but don`t insult our intelligence by pretending we are all better off because of privatisation.It`s a dishonest con,that has made the rich,stinking filthy rich.
Terry,I'm not suggesting everyone is better off because of privatisation, although quoting bills from 30 years ago has to be balanced by comparing them with salaries back in the 1980's as well, doesn't it. But there is now more choice and, I believe, most of the privatised industries are now run a lot better than they were when government owned.

And I'm sorry but it pisses me off when people go on about "poor old pensioners". I'm a fucking pensioner myself, not state pension yet but coming up fast on the rails, and consider myself very fortunate, as we all should, of having lived through probably the easiest lifetime of any generation before us. Our parents had to contend with World War II and our grandparents had to suffer the horrors of the First World War. Our generation, and I don't think we're too far apart age wise, has had it bloody easy compared with the generations that preceded us. There have been recessions of course but work has usually been available if we were prepared to turn our hands to anything on offer and not turn our noses up at something because we thought it was somehow beneath us.

I wonder how many of those "poor old pensioners" who claim to be in financial distress are in that situation because they smoked, gambled or pissed a big percentage of their wages up the wall when they were younger ? There will always be some people of all age groups who, through no fault of their own, are unable to support themselves as well as the rest of us but in the main, those of us who are able bodied and prepared to work hard have had a far easier existence than our parents and granparents. I don't think too many will disagree.

Unfortunately imo the welfare state has made it far too easy to rely on other people, the vast majority of us taxpayers, to fund people's lifestyles. Instead of working that little bit harder, or smarter, people have become accustomed to asking for more without giving anything back.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:35 pm

BillyDWhizz wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 pm
So May survives the vote of no confidence ONLY because the DUP allowed her to do so. Arlene Foster is our defacto PM since May is completely and utterly powerless without her. That's democracy for ya. How many of you voted for the DUP eh? :lol:
That's true Billy but as I've said on another thread, we've never really had a democracy. The biggest parliamentary majorities in my lifetime have, I believe, been the Blair and Thatcher administrations. And guess what. Even with Blair's unprecedented majority in the house more people in the country voted against them than for them

How is that respecting the wishes of the majority. Many people on both sides of the house are now saying we must deliver Brexit because it's what the people voted for. And these are the same people who are quite happy to serve in governments that do not enjoy the popular support their parliamentary majorities suggest.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by terrya1965 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 pm
terrya1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm


30 years ago,my rates were £2.97 per week,that included water and council tax.So that is £11.88 per month.

Combining both now,it`s nearly £200.ENOUGH SAID.Even taking inflation in to account,that`s an insult.

Utility bills have tripled in price just in the past 20 years.Only fags and booze have gone up more.Let`s not forget these are essentials that we have to have.Pensioners can`t afford to heat their homes,while some fat cat(or cunt) is buying himself another yacht in the Bahamas.

Did you know before any of these were privatised,Thatcher cleared all debts(paid by the good old taxpayer),so Shareholders made a better profit.We will take one example.Water was privatised at a £4.9 Billion loss and the whole lot was paid up by the taxpayer.
Guess what?
They are now £50 odd Billion in debt.

Whiskeyman,I know many maybe not has bright has you on here,but don`t insult our intelligence by pretending we are all better off because of privatisation.It`s a dishonest con,that has made the rich,stinking filthy rich.
Terry,I'm not suggesting everyone is better off because of privatisation, although quoting bills from 30 years ago has to be balanced by comparing them with salaries back in the 1980's as well, doesn't it. But there is now more choice and, I believe, most of the privatised industries are now run a lot better than they were when government owned.

And I'm sorry but it pisses me off when people go on about "poor old pensioners". I'm a fucking pensioner myself, not state pension yet but coming up fast on the rails, and consider myself very fortunate, as we all should, of having lived through probably the easiest lifetime of any generation before us. Our parents had to contend with World War II and our grandparents had to suffer the horrors of the First World War. Our generation, and I don't think we're too far apart age wise, has had it bloody easy compared with the generations that preceded us. There have been recessions of course but work has usually been available if we were prepared to turn our hands to anything on offer and not turn our noses up at something because we thought it was somehow beneath us.

I wonder how many of those "poor old pensioners" who claim to be in financial distress are in that situation because they smoked, gambled or pissed a big percentage of their wages up the wall when they were younger ? There will always be some people of all age groups who, through no fault of their own, are unable to support themselves as well as the rest of us but in the main, those of us who are able bodied and prepared to work hard have had a far easier existence than our parents and granparents. I don't think too many will disagree.

Unfortunately imo the welfare state has made it far too easy to rely on other people, the vast majority of us taxpayers, to fund people's lifestyles. Instead of working that little bit harder, or smarter, people have become accustomed to asking for more without giving anything back.
I agree with your last paragraph.I'm no lefty.Everyone should work for their money and do so Full Time.All this nonsense with the majority of the population doing part time(not including mothers who should work PT).I do think if you work all your life,whether you are a Road-sweeper or a Lawyer,everyone should be entitled to a pension.

I am for "Fairness" in life.I think too many get money for nothing,whether it`s the rich or the people that don`t want to go out and work.

If someone has a decent job and work hard and earns a big crust,I have no problem with that at all..I say,GOOD LUCK to them,but there are those that earn money screwing the poor and a Tory Government creating policies that make the well off,a lot better off IMO.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by terrya1965 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:50 am

terrya1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 pm


Terry,I'm not suggesting everyone is better off because of privatisation, although quoting bills from 30 years ago has to be balanced by comparing them with salaries back in the 1980's as well, doesn't it. But there is now more choice and, I believe, most of the privatised industries are now run a lot better than they were when government owned.

And I'm sorry but it pisses me off when people go on about "poor old pensioners". I'm a fucking pensioner myself, not state pension yet but coming up fast on the rails, and consider myself very fortunate, as we all should, of having lived through probably the easiest lifetime of any generation before us. Our parents had to contend with World War II and our grandparents had to suffer the horrors of the First World War. Our generation, and I don't think we're too far apart age wise, has had it bloody easy compared with the generations that preceded us. There have been recessions of course but work has usually been available if we were prepared to turn our hands to anything on offer and not turn our noses up at something because we thought it was somehow beneath us.

I wonder how many of those "poor old pensioners" who claim to be in financial distress are in that situation because they smoked, gambled or pissed a big percentage of their wages up the wall when they were younger ? There will always be some people of all age groups who, through no fault of their own, are unable to support themselves as well as the rest of us but in the main, those of us who are able bodied and prepared to work hard have had a far easier existence than our parents and granparents. I don't think too many will disagree.

Unfortunately imo the welfare state has made it far too easy to rely on other people, the vast majority of us taxpayers, to fund people's lifestyles. Instead of working that little bit harder, or smarter, people have become accustomed to asking for more without giving anything back.
I agree with your last paragraph.I'm no lefty.Everyone should work for their money and do so Full Time.All this nonsense with the majority of the population doing part time(not including mothers who should only work PT).I do think if you work all your life,whether you are a Road-sweeper or a Lawyer,everyone should be entitled to a half decent pension.

I am for "Fairness" in life.I think too many get money for nothing,whether it`s the rich or the people that don`t want to go out and work.

If someone has a decent job and work hard and earns a big crust,I have no problem with that at all..I say,GOOD LUCK to them,but there are those that earn money screwing the poor and a Tory Government creating policies that make the well off,a lot better off IMO.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Marco Boogers Boots » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:20 am

terrya1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:06 pm
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:33 pm


I could paint a different picture Billy. Obviously I can only speak personally as everyone's circumstances are different.
Water. I have a metered supply, pay bu direct debit and it costs me £20 a month. Can't remember what it was back in the day but, trust me, it wasn't much less than that around 20 years ago.

Gas/Electric. Monthly direct debit costs £90. I shop round every year to check rates and swap supplier if advantageous.
As with water that is cheaper in real terms to what I paid when they were state owned. Partly I believe because I now have a choice of supplier.

Railways. Don't use trains regularly but relative to what they used to cost pre nationalisation taking into consideration inflation it costs me less to get into London off peak than it did back in the day. Day Return now from Welwyn Garden City to West End is £19.10. Admittedly that is off peak. And please don't tell me there weren't delays and cancellations in the privatised era. I used to have to commute into the city by train and did so under nationalisation and the privatised version. The quality of train is now better and faster but I'll happily concede that may also have happened under state ownership. Electrification of our line massively improved the quality of service.

Don't think it's really fair to use steel and coal as examples tbh. Both these products can be sourced much more cheaply from abroad and so it was fairly inevitable those industries would wither and die.

BT's job cuts ? Job cuts happen as the working world evolves. When I started work in the city one of my first jobs was analysing company accounts and giving those company's investment risk ratings. There were around 15 of us doing that. Now an algorithm can do the job much more quickly and probably a lot more accurately. I think it's called progress. ;)

The biggest employer in the UK? Yes, you've guessed it. The fucking NHS. Government run, Is it efficient ? This isn't apolitical point but Our local hospital , the QEII. was closed down by the last Labour administration. Only about 2 or 3 years before that there had been massive expenditure upgrading parts of it. Hardly a good use of taxpayers hard earned is it ?

And on that subject how inefficient is the whole government apparatus that's supposed to be there for our benefit ? Just one example. If you have kids you get child benefit. Fair enough. But why have one department,HMRC,taking the money from you as tax, and another giving you some of it back as a child benefit? Why not simply change your tax code and let you keep the equivalent in your salary cheque?

Now I'm in rant mode. And I guess we'll never agree. ;)
Has for the Railway.

We are the most expensive in Europe,probably the world,not just a tiny bit,but FIVE times has much.

Our train services are poorer.

The whole train system is poorer.Guess What?Ours is the only rail system that isn`t Nationalised.

But the most annoying thing is the British taxpayer who subsidising it and half of them are owned by foreign companies.

Is this all for the benefit of the British taxpayer?Like hell it is,it`s all to benefit the fat cats.

Anything that is any good in this country is sold and why the majority don`t benefit.WHY do you think we have had to live in Austerity for the past 12 years?No money for this and no money for that?All down to greed I'm afraid.
The railways are not cheap to run and maintain - that will never change. The British model is subsidised by the government to the tune of £3.8billion per year. Compare that to the Germans and French at £15.05billion and £11.7billion and you'll see that there is a huge difference.

Nationalising the rail system here would mean a significant increase in cost to the government and that will only come from one place - the taxpayer. You can either take it from elsewhere in government (a non-starter currently, given that spending has already been reduced everywhere) or increase taxes. Or we maintain the status quo, where people that use the system pay. Corbyn, the "man of the people" "for the many not the few" can talk shit about nationalisation of whatever the fuck he likes, but eventually the cunt will have to put in a manifesto how he'll pay for it. If that doesn't include tax increases then he's an even bigger liar that I thought.

I don't use trains much these days, but I used them a lot when I was younger and I remember them significantly improving once they were privatised - admittedly that is personal anecdotal evidence but I would suggest that anybody who thinks the National Rail of the 80s and early 90s was good has a very large set of rose-tinted glasses on.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:10 am

terrya1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 pm


Terry,I'm not suggesting everyone is better off because of privatisation, although quoting bills from 30 years ago has to be balanced by comparing them with salaries back in the 1980's as well, doesn't it. But there is now more choice and, I believe, most of the privatised industries are now run a lot better than they were when government owned.

And I'm sorry but it pisses me off when people go on about "poor old pensioners". I'm a fucking pensioner myself, not state pension yet but coming up fast on the rails, and consider myself very fortunate, as we all should, of having lived through probably the easiest lifetime of any generation before us. Our parents had to contend with World War II and our grandparents had to suffer the horrors of the First World War. Our generation, and I don't think we're too far apart age wise, has had it bloody easy compared with the generations that preceded us. There have been recessions of course but work has usually been available if we were prepared to turn our hands to anything on offer and not turn our noses up at something because we thought it was somehow beneath us.

I wonder how many of those "poor old pensioners" who claim to be in financial distress are in that situation because they smoked, gambled or pissed a big percentage of their wages up the wall when they were younger ? There will always be some people of all age groups who, through no fault of their own, are unable to support themselves as well as the rest of us but in the main, those of us who are able bodied and prepared to work hard have had a far easier existence than our parents and granparents. I don't think too many will disagree.

Unfortunately imo the welfare state has made it far too easy to rely on other people, the vast majority of us taxpayers, to fund people's lifestyles. Instead of working that little bit harder, or smarter, people have become accustomed to asking for more without giving anything back.
I agree with your last paragraph.I'm no lefty.Everyone should work for their money and do so Full Time.All this nonsense with the majority of the population doing part time(not including mothers who should work PT).I do think if you work all your life,whether you are a Road-sweeper or a Lawyer,everyone should be entitled to a pension.

I am for "Fairness" in life.I think too many get money for nothing,whether it`s the rich or the people that don`t want to go out and work.

If someone has a decent job and work hard and earns a big crust,I have no problem with that at all..I say,GOOD LUCK to them,but there are those that earn money screwing the poor and a Tory Government creating policies that make the well off,a lot better off IMO.
Of course everyone should receive a pension when they retire. That was originally what National Insurance payments were designed to provide. And I agree with you in principle about "fairness", although I'll be fucked if I have a clue about how we're ever going to achieve that. But I honestly don't think there's money to be made by "screwing the poor". And in any case who are the "poor" ? I'd say somebody who can't afford the basic necessities of life. Food, clothing and a roof over their head, not somebody who can't afford to buy their kids the newest X-Box or Nike trainers.

There will always been some poor sods who through no fault of their own fall through the safety net. But imo we're fortunate in this country that real poverty isn't, imo, as commonplace as many would, for political reasons, have us believe.
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palerider
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by palerider » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 am

Last night's confidence vote showed how dangerous the prospect of Corbyn in number 10 is perceived.


Any sort of less toxic a brand and we'd have a Labour government already.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:56 am

palerider wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 am
Last night's confidence vote showed how dangerous the prospect of Corbyn in number 10 is perceived.


Any sort of less toxic a brand and we'd have a Labour government already.
Unfortunately we have the worst of both worlds at the moment. A government unfit and unable to govern and an opposition unfit even to oppose. But unbelievably I do agree with Corbyn that if the bloody woman wants dialogue a "no deal whatsoever" Brexit has to be taken off the agenda. Such a scenario could potentially cost businesses millions.
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