The Mogg is circling...

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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by terrya1965 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:33 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:20 pm
I don't even think it's about creating a voice, mate. I think there's a set of politicians who use politics to service their own ego.
Farage, Johnson, Corbyn, Sturgeon, are all of that Ilk. I wouldn't trust any of them to light my barbecue, let alone run a country.
They are all self serving selfish bastards,who only care for one thing,themselves.This is why this country is in such a mess,but you have to wonder why?Let`s not forget we are the 5th richest country in the world.How can the country look worse than it did 35 years ago?Look around you,people living on streets,plenty more shitholes,roads with pot holes everywhere.Just because our councils have no money for anything?

I don`t remember waiting over a week for a Doctors appointment?I could just walk in on the day.
The dead now being buried 2 months after they died.You could choose the day you wanted the funeral on most of the time.

All cuts,cuts and more cuts.

Don't start with the pensions.Every other c*nt in Europe get more than the average working man here.You have to ask yourself why?I tell why,its because our politicians are only interested in feathering their own caps and not for the people they are suppose to be helping.I dread to think what this country will resemble in 20 years time,but I have a feeling,it will be more like India than the UK of yesteryear. :cry:
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Thu May 16, 2019 2:37 am

mkhammer wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:29 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 am
The way some journalists spin it you'd imagine Nigel Farage's outrage at being asked about policies other than Brexit was some kind of outrage.
Has there ever been a more single policy politician or party in the history of politics?

And just to give an example here, Farage has, in the past, advocated an American style insurance based healthcare system. Trouble is a lot of people think it's like BUPA or car insurance. A few hundred quid a year and everything is hunky dory.
Five minutes researching the average yearly costs of US health insurance is a bit of an eye opener. The average family pays just on $10,000 with a deductable -- in our insurance parlance excess -- of roughly $8500. For an individual it's not much better at $4000 and a deductible of $4500.

Is everyone really so obsessed with Brexit that this stuff doesn't matter?
Thing is mate..he doesn't hide from the fact....hence...UKIP...Brexit Party...He forms parties with just
the one target..one specific aim,it's not to get into power and be PM..it's about creating a voice
a movement...Pressurising.
He knows.."Brexit party."...straight away you've got half the votes gone,same with UKIP...
Personally not really in favour with that tactic...in this instance,he would need to be negotiating
to have an effect..
That means he needs to have a power base in parliament,which means you need other "Proper"
policies.
Tactic here is get as many MEPs as he can...let the EURO bods know,we are serious about leaving,
and don't be fooled by the BBC and other Media Remainers,or a March by under 2% of the voting public
as representative of public opinion...you watch our TV, read our papers,listen to our MPs,
you'd think we were a country of remainers,when in fact remainers are in the minority.
If you believe the printed media is pro Remain you must be reading the wrong papers. And anyone who is influenced by groups of people, irrespective of their political or personal beliefs, waddling along waving placards and shouting slogans shouldn't have the right to fucking well vote anyway imo. But you are correct about the need for so called single issue parties to have some form of power base.

However the only way that is ever going to happen is with some form of proportional representation. At the moment the Tories and Labour are a "one size fits all" model. FFS the Brexit issue has really thrown together some strange bedfellows. Fleas-Dogg & Diane Abbott FFS. One dreads to think what any progeny of that unholy liaison would resemble. Of course both those individuals are not only anti EU but very anti PR because it would remove the certainty of election to the safe seats at Westminster they both enjoy.

Let's just look at some basic statistical facts. In 1997 the Labour Party won by an absolute landslide, in terms of seats. They won 418 seats with around 13.5 million votes. The Tories and Lib Dems combined vote was just short of 15 million and between them they had 211 seats. So we had a government, with a parliamentary majority able to do pretty much whatever it wanted, that the majority of people in the country voted against.

It was a similar story in 2001 when Blair was again elected with a massive majority (413 seats against 218 for the Tories & Lib Dems) with an even smaller popular vote percentage (40.7%) Meaning that pretty much 59 out of every 100 people who voted didn't want Blair as PM.

I'm not just quoting these figures because I'm a Conservative btw. Exactly the same thing happened in 1983 when Maggie Thatcher secured a majority in the house of 165 MP's despite only 13 million voting for her government against 16 million for Labour or Lib Dems. I accept those parliamentary majorities tend to be the exception but they do illustrate perfectly the inherent flaw in our political system.

So fast forward t0 2015 and the emergence of UKIP. I personally have no time for Nigel Farage or his policies. However I find it verging on the obscene that in 2015 his UKIP party secured just under 4 million votes but only ended up with a single MP. And he was the bloke who originally defected from the Tories in the previous parliament. UKIP secured roughly a third of the total votes achieved by Labour, who won 232 seats.

More spectacularly UKIP got nearly 2.5 million more votes than the SNP---who won 56 seats. How on earth can that be democratic. UKIP supporters, who despite both main parties thinking the UKIP vote hurts them most, I would guess come from both traditional Tory and Labour voters. But they were denied a voice their support deserved. I accept that level of support was their peak but that is totally irrelevant.

Which is why I would like to see mass defections from both Tory and Labour to the new parties. The Brexit Party on the one side and the Change UK Pro European group. It won't happen of course but I can hope can't I ?
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:37 am
mkhammer wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:29 am


Thing is mate..he doesn't hide from the fact....hence...UKIP...Brexit Party...He forms parties with just
the one target..one specific aim,it's not to get into power and be PM..it's about creating a voice
a movement...Pressurising.
He knows.."Brexit party."...straight away you've got half the votes gone,same with UKIP...
Personally not really in favour with that tactic...in this instance,he would need to be negotiating
to have an effect..
That means he needs to have a power base in parliament,which means you need other "Proper"
policies.
Tactic here is get as many MEPs as he can...let the EURO bods know,we are serious about leaving,
and don't be fooled by the BBC and other Media Remainers,or a March by under 2% of the voting public
as representative of public opinion...you watch our TV, read our papers,listen to our MPs,
you'd think we were a country of remainers,when in fact remainers are in the minority.
If you believe the printed media is pro Remain you must be reading the wrong papers. And anyone who is influenced by groups of people, irrespective of their political or personal beliefs, waddling along waving placards and shouting slogans shouldn't have the right to fucking well vote anyway imo. But you are correct about the need for so called single issue parties to have some form of power base.

However the only way that is ever going to happen is with some form of proportional representation. At the moment the Tories and Labour are a "one size fits all" model. FFS the Brexit issue has really thrown together some strange bedfellows. Fleas-Dogg & Diane Abbott FFS. One dreads to think what any progeny of that unholy liaison would resemble. Of course both those individuals are not only anti EU but very anti PR because it would remove the certainty of election to the safe seats at Westminster they both enjoy.

Let's just look at some basic statistical facts. In 1997 the Labour Party won by an absolute landslide, in terms of seats. They won 418 seats with around 13.5 million votes. The Tories and Lib Dems combined vote was just short of 15 million and between them they had 211 seats. So we had a government, with a parliamentary majority able to do pretty much whatever it wanted, that the majority of people in the country voted against.

It was a similar story in 2001 when Blair was again elected with a massive majority (413 seats against 218 for the Tories & Lib Dems) with an even smaller popular vote percentage (40.7%) Meaning that pretty much 59 out of every 100 people who voted didn't want Blair as PM.

I'm not just quoting these figures because I'm a Conservative btw. Exactly the same thing happened in 1983 when Maggie Thatcher secured a majority in the house of 165 MP's despite only 13 million voting for her government against 16 million for Labour or Lib Dems. I accept those parliamentary majorities tend to be the exception but they do illustrate perfectly the inherent flaw in our political system.

So fast forward t0 2015 and the emergence of UKIP. I personally have no time for Nigel Farage or his policies. However I find it verging on the obscene that in 2015 his UKIP party secured just under 4 million votes but only ended up with a single MP. And he was the bloke who originally defected from the Tories in the previous parliament. UKIP secured roughly a third of the total votes achieved by Labour, who won 232 seats.

More spectacularly UKIP got nearly 2.5 million more votes than the SNP---who won 56 seats. How on earth can that be democratic. UKIP supporters, who despite both main parties thinking the UKIP vote hurts them most, I would guess come from both traditional Tory and Labour voters. But they were denied a voice their support deserved. I accept that level of support was their peak but that is totally irrelevant.

Which is why I would like to see mass defections from both Tory and Labour to the new parties. The Brexit Party on the one side and the Change UK Pro European group. It won't happen of course but I can hope can't I ?
Terrific post, mate.
My favourite example of the iniquities of FPTP is the performance of the Lib Dems in the 80s.

In 87 they carded a staggering 22.6% of the vote for just 22 seats. That's 3.4% of the seats in parliament.

The best is the 83 election though. The Lib Dems won over a quarter of the vote 25.4%, that's 7.78m votes. Now compared to Labour it was pretty even as they got 27.6% and 8.45m votes.
You'd imagine that the seats won would be sort of closeish. 209 to 23. 2% more of the vote for 900% more seats.

Who knows where this idea of geography being the key factor in democracy came from, but it's clearly in Conservative and Labour -- and SNP for that matter -- interests to keep it that way.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by mkhammer » Thu May 16, 2019 10:05 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:37 am


If you believe the printed media is pro Remain you must be reading the wrong papers. And anyone who is influenced by groups of people, irrespective of their political or personal beliefs, waddling along waving placards and shouting slogans shouldn't have the right to fucking well vote anyway imo. But you are correct about the need for so called single issue parties to have some form of power base.

However the only way that is ever going to happen is with some form of proportional representation. At the moment the Tories and Labour are a "one size fits all" model. FFS the Brexit issue has really thrown together some strange bedfellows. Fleas-Dogg & Diane Abbott FFS. One dreads to think what any progeny of that unholy liaison would resemble. Of course both those individuals are not only anti EU but very anti PR because it would remove the certainty of election to the safe seats at Westminster they both enjoy.

Let's just look at some basic statistical facts. In 1997 the Labour Party won by an absolute landslide, in terms of seats. They won 418 seats with around 13.5 million votes. The Tories and Lib Dems combined vote was just short of 15 million and between them they had 211 seats. So we had a government, with a parliamentary majority able to do pretty much whatever it wanted, that the majority of people in the country voted against.

It was a similar story in 2001 when Blair was again elected with a massive majority (413 seats against 218 for the Tories & Lib Dems) with an even smaller popular vote percentage (40.7%) Meaning that pretty much 59 out of every 100 people who voted didn't want Blair as PM.

I'm not just quoting these figures because I'm a Conservative btw. Exactly the same thing happened in 1983 when Maggie Thatcher secured a majority in the house of 165 MP's despite only 13 million voting for her government against 16 million for Labour or Lib Dems. I accept those parliamentary majorities tend to be the exception but they do illustrate perfectly the inherent flaw in our political system.

So fast forward t0 2015 and the emergence of UKIP. I personally have no time for Nigel Farage or his policies. However I find it verging on the obscene that in 2015 his UKIP party secured just under 4 million votes but only ended up with a single MP. And he was the bloke who originally defected from the Tories in the previous parliament. UKIP secured roughly a third of the total votes achieved by Labour, who won 232 seats.

More spectacularly UKIP got nearly 2.5 million more votes than the SNP---who won 56 seats. How on earth can that be democratic. UKIP supporters, who despite both main parties thinking the UKIP vote hurts them most, I would guess come from both traditional Tory and Labour voters. But they were denied a voice their support deserved. I accept that level of support was their peak but that is totally irrelevant.

Which is why I would like to see mass defections from both Tory and Labour to the new parties. The Brexit Party on the one side and the Change UK Pro European group. It won't happen of course but I can hope can't I ?
Terrific post, mate.
My favourite example of the iniquities of FPTP is the performance of the Lib Dems in the 80s.

In 87 they carded a staggering 22.6% of the vote for just 22 seats. That's 3.4% of the seats in parliament.

The best is the 83 election though. The Lib Dems won over a quarter of the vote 25.4%, that's 7.78m votes. Now compared to Labour it was pretty even as they got 27.6% and 8.45m votes.
You'd imagine that the seats won would be sort of closeish. 209 to 23. 2% more of the vote for 900% more seats.

Who knows where this idea of geography being the key factor in democracy came from, but it's clearly in Conservative and Labour -- and SNP for that matter -- interests to keep it that way.
I don't actually disagree...was a Lib when a kid in 80s,used to bang on about the unfairness
of the Voting System..But couldn't really work out how we could make a different system work.

So we have a vote...just on numbers of electorate,Tories say get 40% Lab 35% Libs 10% Ukip 10%
Others 5%...Just being approximate here.....Tories get 280 seats..in the Parliament...Lab get 220..
Libs 60 or so each...others 30..
We still need elected "People"..we'll stick with calling them MPs..to represent areas of the country,
So how do we decide who goes where...surely its best to have,an MP representing an area,rather than
being allocated one..
I'm not saying a new system isn't doable..Germany have a different system seems to work..

Prob is the Libs were all, still are for PR...BUT if they somehow got to be elected would drop it like a
hot potato....cos the present system would have worked for them.....Winners don't wanna change things.

Lost my thread of thought...just looked at TV to see Rachel Riley on looking absolutely Stunning,
Fuck Politics when there's a beautiful woman around... :lol:

Whiskey.....The BBC might as well just come Clean it's way way to obvious,Sky aren't far behind,
Papers,don't really read...get Times 2/3 times a week,and I see plenty of May Digs in it....
Piss taking Cartoons etc....
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by palerider » Thu May 16, 2019 3:36 pm

May has finally agreed to set out a timetable for pissing off.

It will be put in place soon, but the day can't be any day that has a 'y' in it.

Fucking witch.


Just wait until the European elections next week shove a further reminder up your wrinkly old arse.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Thu May 16, 2019 7:32 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:05 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am


Terrific post, mate.
My favourite example of the iniquities of FPTP is the performance of the Lib Dems in the 80s.

In 87 they carded a staggering 22.6% of the vote for just 22 seats. That's 3.4% of the seats in parliament.

The best is the 83 election though. The Lib Dems won over a quarter of the vote 25.4%, that's 7.78m votes. Now compared to Labour it was pretty even as they got 27.6% and 8.45m votes.
You'd imagine that the seats won would be sort of closeish. 209 to 23. 2% more of the vote for 900% more seats.

Who knows where this idea of geography being the key factor in democracy came from, but it's clearly in Conservative and Labour -- and SNP for that matter -- interests to keep it that way.
I don't actually disagree...was a Lib when a kid in 80s,used to bang on about the unfairness
of the Voting System..But couldn't really work out how we could make a different system work.

So we have a vote...just on numbers of electorate,Tories say get 40% Lab 35% Libs 10% Ukip 10%
Others 5%...Just being approximate here.....Tories get 280 seats..in the Parliament...Lab get 220..
Libs 60 or so each...others 30..
We still need elected "People"..we'll stick with calling them MPs..to represent areas of the country,
So how do we decide who goes where...surely its best to have,an MP representing an area,rather than
being allocated one..
I'm not saying a new system isn't doable..Germany have a different system seems to work..

Prob is the Libs were all, still are for PR...BUT if they somehow got to be elected would drop it like a
hot potato....cos the present system would have worked for them.....Winners don't wanna change things.

Lost my thread of thought...just looked at TV to see Rachel Riley on looking absolutely Stunning,
Fuck Politics when there's a beautiful woman around... :lol:

Whiskey.....The BBC might as well just come Clean it's way way to obvious,Sky aren't far behind,
Papers,don't really read...get Times 2/3 times a week,and I see plenty of May Digs in it....
Piss taking Cartoons etc....
I think the second house had been ripe for conversion from peers to PR for some time.
A second house with some teeth and legitamcy might just be what British politics needs.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Gonzo » Thu May 16, 2019 11:25 pm

Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 am
The way some journalists spin it you'd imagine Nigel Farage's outrage at being asked about policies other than Brexit was some kind of outrage.
Has there ever been a more single policy politician or party in the history of politics?

And just to give an example here, Farage has, in the past, advocated an American style insurance based healthcare system. Trouble is a lot of people think it's like BUPA or car insurance. A few hundred quid a year and everything is hunky dory.
Five minutes researching the average yearly costs of US health insurance is a bit of an eye opener. The average family pays just on $10,000 with a deductable -- in our insurance parlance excess -- of roughly $8500. For an individual it's not much better at $4000 and a deductible of $4500.

Is everyone really so obsessed with Brexit that this stuff doesn't matter?
The NHS matters to many on both sides of the voting public.

I think people are savvy enough to appreciate that their vote for Farage as an MEP will not result in creating an omnipotent politician capable of destroying the NHS.

I also doubt that Frage is silly enough to push that agenda anyway because he has the feel of the public pulse more than most at the moment. He knows a vote winner and a trend when he see's one and I can't envisage any push for private healthcare from him or his party.

It's smearing though, Channel 4 have tried it tonight and it's an open tactic to dig into the archives for anything regardless of whether it's a current belief. Corbyn suffers from the same thing as the Hamas and IRA links are constantly regurgitated to discredit him.

Jezzas core vote don't care though. The antisemitism and terrorist sympathising were already factored in during the last election and people still voted for him. It's not really new or pertinent information as far as his supporters are concerned. . . they love the bloke and see the tactics as bullying.

Channel 4 will find a similar failure in their attempt to derail the Brexit Party this evening. Those likely to vote for Farage's new incarnation are already pissed off with the mainstream media and their parliamentary puppet masters. Far from alerting people to the funding they'll merely strengthen the resolve of his supporters and possible recruit a couple of fence-sitters.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Neville Bartos » Fri May 17, 2019 7:24 am

Gonzo wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:25 pm
Neville Bartos wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 am
The way some journalists spin it you'd imagine Nigel Farage's outrage at being asked about policies other than Brexit was some kind of outrage.
Has there ever been a more single policy politician or party in the history of politics?

And just to give an example here, Farage has, in the past, advocated an American style insurance based healthcare system. Trouble is a lot of people think it's like BUPA or car insurance. A few hundred quid a year and everything is hunky dory.
Five minutes researching the average yearly costs of US health insurance is a bit of an eye opener. The average family pays just on $10,000 with a deductable -- in our insurance parlance excess -- of roughly $8500. For an individual it's not much better at $4000 and a deductible of $4500.

Is everyone really so obsessed with Brexit that this stuff doesn't matter?
The NHS matters to many on both sides of the voting public.

I think people are savvy enough to appreciate that their vote for Farage as an MEP will not result in creating an omnipotent politician capable of destroying the NHS.

I also doubt that Frage is silly enough to push that agenda anyway because he has the feel of the public pulse more than most at the moment. He knows a vote winner and a trend when he see's one and I can't envisage any push for private healthcare from him or his party.

It's smearing though, Channel 4 have tried it tonight and it's an open tactic to dig into the archives for anything regardless of whether it's a current belief. Corbyn suffers from the same thing as the Hamas and IRA links are constantly regurgitated to discredit him.

Jezzas core vote don't care though. The antisemitism and terrorist sympathising were already factored in during the last election and people still voted for him. It's not really new or pertinent information as far as his supporters are concerned. . . they love the bloke and see the tactics as bullying.

Channel 4 will find a similar failure in their attempt to derail the Brexit Party this evening. Those likely to vote for Farage's new incarnation are already pissed off with the mainstream media and their parliamentary puppet masters. Far from alerting people to the funding they'll merely strengthen the resolve of his supporters and possible recruit a couple of fence-sitters.
I've genuinely had enough of politics and politicians. I've spent most of the last decade voting independent because there's nothing out there for me, nothing even close.

It just feels like populism is the name of the game and things like ethics, honesty, responsibility and principles have gone out the window. And that's right, left and whatever passes for centre.
You can probably describe the mainstream news media that way too.

I think maybe the Ukraine have hit on something voting for a comedian as president.
Shows like HIGNFY and The Daily Show probably take politics and current affairs more seriously, and hold it to account better, than news media or politicians.
How about PM Hislop or Merton? Doesn't sound quite so ridiculous when you considers the Corbyn's and Johnson's of this world.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Gonzo » Fri May 17, 2019 8:05 am

Neville Bartos wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:24 am
Gonzo wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:25 pm


The NHS matters to many on both sides of the voting public.

I think people are savvy enough to appreciate that their vote for Farage as an MEP will not result in creating an omnipotent politician capable of destroying the NHS.

I also doubt that Frage is silly enough to push that agenda anyway because he has the feel of the public pulse more than most at the moment. He knows a vote winner and a trend when he see's one and I can't envisage any push for private healthcare from him or his party.

It's smearing though, Channel 4 have tried it tonight and it's an open tactic to dig into the archives for anything regardless of whether it's a current belief. Corbyn suffers from the same thing as the Hamas and IRA links are constantly regurgitated to discredit him.

Jezzas core vote don't care though. The antisemitism and terrorist sympathising were already factored in during the last election and people still voted for him. It's not really new or pertinent information as far as his supporters are concerned. . . they love the bloke and see the tactics as bullying.

Channel 4 will find a similar failure in their attempt to derail the Brexit Party this evening. Those likely to vote for Farage's new incarnation are already pissed off with the mainstream media and their parliamentary puppet masters. Far from alerting people to the funding they'll merely strengthen the resolve of his supporters and possible recruit a couple of fence-sitters.
I've genuinely had enough of politics and politicians. I've spent most of the last decade voting independent because there's nothing out there for me, nothing even close.

It just feels like populism is the name of the game and things like ethics, honesty, responsibility and principles have gone out the window. And that's right, left and whatever passes for centre.
You can probably describe the mainstream news media that way too.

That's it in a nutshell.

How people are tied at the hip to one particular party or another regardless of how they behave or perform is astounding.

Politicians don't deserve they loyalty and faith they receive.
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Re: The Mogg is circling...

Post by Whiskyman » Fri May 17, 2019 10:09 am

mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:05 am
Neville Bartos wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am


Terrific post, mate.
My favourite example of the iniquities of FPTP is the performance of the Lib Dems in the 80s.

In 87 they carded a staggering 22.6% of the vote for just 22 seats. That's 3.4% of the seats in parliament.

The best is the 83 election though. The Lib Dems won over a quarter of the vote 25.4%, that's 7.78m votes. Now compared to Labour it was pretty even as they got 27.6% and 8.45m votes.
You'd imagine that the seats won would be sort of closeish. 209 to 23. 2% more of the vote for 900% more seats.

Who knows where this idea of geography being the key factor in democracy came from, but it's clearly in Conservative and Labour -- and SNP for that matter -- interests to keep it that way.
I don't actually disagree...was a Lib when a kid in 80s,used to bang on about the unfairness
of the Voting System..But couldn't really work out how we could make a different system work.

So we have a vote...just on numbers of electorate,Tories say get 40% Lab 35% Libs 10% Ukip 10%
Others 5%...Just being approximate here.....Tories get 280 seats..in the Parliament...Lab get 220..
Libs 60 or so each...others 30..
We still need elected "People"..we'll stick with calling them MPs..to represent areas of the country,
So how do we decide who goes where...surely its best to have,an MP representing an area,rather than
being allocated one..
I'm not saying a new system isn't doable..Germany have a different system seems to work..

Prob is the Libs were all, still are for PR...BUT if they somehow got to be elected would drop it like a
hot potato....cos the present system would have worked for them.....Winners don't wanna change things.

Lost my thread of thought...just looked at TV to see Rachel Riley on looking absolutely Stunning,
Fuck Politics when there's a beautiful woman around... :lol:

Whiskey.....The BBC might as well just come Clean it's way way to obvious,Sky aren't far behind,
Papers,don't really read...get Times 2/3 times a week,and I see plenty of May Digs in it....
Piss taking Cartoons etc....
The idea of an MP representing his or her local constituency is one often brought out when PR is discussed. My M P is local. His predecessor wasn't. And I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of MP's, particularly the ones on both sides who are seen as "key" to their party and are shunted into unlosable seats, have no particular affinity to the area they are elected to represent.

PR works in Germany, the best managed country financially since WWII, and pretty much everywhere else in the free world. If electoral seats, a totally unsatisfactory way of determining the number of MP's imo because of the ease with which areas can be manipulated, both sides have been guilty of this in the past. Frankly I would rather see a truly democratic system, one in which every vote actually counts, rather than the present system which has, certainly in my lifetime, ALWAYS resulted in us getting a government, often with an unchallengeable majority in the House, that the majority of voters didn't want.

As for the Times taking the piss out of Theresa May and her "government", I use the term in the loosest possible sense. I can't really see why they bother. She and her colleagues, for whom I am ashamed to admit I voted, seem perfectly capable of making complete cunts of themselves without any help from the media. If we had a credible opposition, another flaw of the present electoral system imo, they would have been history months ago.

I'll bow to your judgment in respect of the Sky stance on Brexit but if they are in the remain camp it's hardly surprising. Business by and large want to stay in for fairly obvious reasons and Sky rely on advertising from, guess what, business. And of course much of the financial backing for the Conservative party comes from business groups. The only surprise for me is that it's taken almost 3 years for matters to come to the apparent impasse we now have.

And it's doing no good at all to my, or anyone else's, investment portfolio. The cunts. ;)
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TRADITION--Just because we've always done it like this doesn't mean it's not incredibly SILLY

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