Phillipy Anderson

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Whiskyman
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by Whiskyman » Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am

IronsForever wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:12 am
andyginbrasil wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 am


Unfortunately that will always be the case unless you are competing with the big boys in European Competitions. I'm sure all up and coming footballers have their ambition of playing in CL final, and that can only be achieved at the top clubs. The likes of Anderson, Rice and Diop will all be lured away from little old us to a big club playing regular European football and as long as we get decent money for them to invest in the next Anderson, Rice and Diop we cannot do anything about it.
To be fair mate we are starting to pay decent wages. Arnie and Anderson get the same amount as Arsenals front 2. We are only going to lose a player for me to top European clubs. Them clubs are always loaded with players and as i said before a player can easily fade away and become a part team player because competition is so high.Everton rarely lose players and we are closing in on that benchmark.
Do you stay at a club who is paying you very decent wages, loved by the fans and one of the clubs most influential players. Or do you gamble and join a club where 2 or 3 bad games sees you dropped to the bench? Look at Hudson Adoi. Couldn,t even break into the Chelsea team before he was called up for England . And thats Chelsea.The bigger the club the more pressure you are under to perform week in week out.
For most players I would imagine money is only part of the equation. They also want to be competing for the top honours in the game. A massive salary may well attract the likes of Wilshere but I'd hazard (no pun intended btw) a guess that if we offered Aubameyang or Lacazette a 25% increase they'd laugh in our faces. Our target has to be catching up to Arsenal's level, not the problem it would have been in the past, and convince players we can challenge for the major trophies.

Your point about playing regularly is a good one but the really top players have confidence in their ability. Only my opinion but Rice would be a starter if he was at Chelsea because , although not as good as Kante, no disgrace there btw, he is better than Jorginho for whom they paid top dollar. Hudson-Odoi can't get in their team because he isn't near the quality of Hazard or Willian, to name just two competing for his position. In fact the only 90 minutes I've watched him in was against us and I couldn't see what the fuss was about tbh.

Everton is a good benchmark for us as you say and they tend to shop in the same stores as we do. But they did lose a player who many rated as a star of the future when Ross Barkley joined Chelsea. I guess he was well paid at Goodison and no doubt earns a decent wedge at Chelsea but where has he more chance of winning something he can show off to his kids in years to come ?

Hopefully we can progress next season to a level where players like Rice, Anderson & Diop can see some sort of future for themselves at West Ham. Because if that doesn't happen we, like loads of other clubs at our level, will never be able to attract, or keep, the very best or those who look to have the potential to reach that level.
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palerider
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by palerider » Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am

Whiskyman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am
IronsForever wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:12 am


To be fair mate we are starting to pay decent wages. Arnie and Anderson get the same amount as Arsenals front 2. We are only going to lose a player for me to top European clubs. Them clubs are always loaded with players and as i said before a player can easily fade away and become a part team player because competition is so high.Everton rarely lose players and we are closing in on that benchmark.
Do you stay at a club who is paying you very decent wages, loved by the fans and one of the clubs most influential players. Or do you gamble and join a club where 2 or 3 bad games sees you dropped to the bench? Look at Hudson Adoi. Couldn,t even break into the Chelsea team before he was called up for England . And thats Chelsea.The bigger the club the more pressure you are under to perform week in week out.
For most players I would imagine money is only part of the equation. They also want to be competing for the top honours in the game. A massive salary may well attract the likes of Wilshere but I'd hazard (no pun intended btw) a guess that if we offered Aubameyang or Lacazette a 25% increase they'd laugh in our faces. Our target has to be catching up to Arsenal's level, not the problem it would have been in the past, and convince players we can challenge for the major trophies.

Your point about playing regularly is a good one but the really top players have confidence in their ability. Only my opinion but Rice would be a starter if he was at Chelsea because , although not as good as Kante, no disgrace there btw, he is better than Jorginho for whom they paid top dollar. Hudson-Odoi can't get in their team because he isn't near the quality of Hazard or Willian, to name just two competing for his position. In fact the only 90 minutes I've watched him in was against us and I couldn't see what the fuss was about tbh.

Everton is a good benchmark for us as you say and they tend to shop in the same stores as we do. But they did lose a player who many rated as a star of the future when Ross Barkley joined Chelsea. I guess he was well paid at Goodison and no doubt earns a decent wedge at Chelsea but where has he more chance of winning something he can show off to his kids in years to come ?

Hopefully we can progress next season to a level where players like Rice, Anderson & Diop can see some sort of future for themselves at West Ham. Because if that doesn't happen we, like loads of other clubs at our level, will never be able to attract, or keep, the very best or those who look to have the potential to reach that level.
Breaking into the top 6 just for starters is the key.

Every now and then someone manages it (Leicester did better than that), but 9 times out of 10 it's the usual suspects.

The fact that United are teetering on the edge shouldn't hide the fact that they are still United, and even if a Wolves or an Everton pipped them to 6th, Thursdays in Slovakia wouldn't convince a potential recruit to think about his destination. But 300k a week would.

For us to make that 'next level' that the dwarf promised us requires his immediate resignation and imprisonment, unless 7th was his idea of the next level.

Then a new owner with bottomless pockets could buy the sort of players required. Those happy enough to forgo the Champions League for a weekly wage so big it takes ambition out of the equation.

It's obscene but it's fact.

When I worked in the city I loved my trips abroad on business. But if BP or whoever had approached me and said they'd treble what Shell were paying me but that all I'd do was sit on my arse for 5 days a week I'd have had to seriously think about it.

For about 2 seconds.
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The cheque's in the post. Honestly.

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mkhammer
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by mkhammer » Thu May 16, 2019 11:02 am

Make the most of Anderson next year,he'll be gone next one I reckon...Top Euro Sides will be in for
him,can't see us doing enough to keep him...same goes for Issa,another mid table jaunt,they'll be off.
Declan keeps his England place,will hang around for another 2 years reckon...but again,mid table,
he's gone...
Why it's important get into Euro competitions,to hopefully keep these guys,and attract quality
players in if they still want to leave.

Pellers said it...we're still a selling club,wrong attitude in my opinion,we need to be moving away
from that..Players will leave thats fact...but don't pre-empt it,buy saying everyones got a price.

Ref Anderson...I seriously wonder what games people are watching when they say,he's not up to
it..lazy..not interested...
He took a corner Sat...Watford broke away from it....who was the guy sprinted past every other
West Ham player to make a goal saving tackle on the edge of our own 6yard box.....
Not the only time this year....the guy works as hard as anyone...
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by Clayton » Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 am

mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:02 am
Make the most of Anderson next year,he'll be gone next one I reckon...Top Euro Sides will be in for
him,can't see us doing enough to keep him...same goes for Issa,another mid table jaunt,they'll be off.
Declan keeps his England place,will hang around for another 2 years reckon...but again,mid table,
he's gone...
Why it's important get into Euro competitions,to hopefully keep these guys,and attract quality
players in if they still want to leave.

Pellers said it...we're still a selling club,wrong attitude in my opinion,we need to be moving away
from that..Players will leave thats fact...but don't pre-empt it,buy saying everyones got a price.

Ref Anderson...I seriously wonder what games people are watching when they say,he's not up to
it..lazy..not interested...
He took a corner Sat...Watford broke away from it....who was the guy sprinted past every other
West Ham player to make a goal saving tackle on the edge of our own 6yard box.....
Not the only time this year....the guy works as hard as anyone...
We will build on what MP has started , and with a bit of luck we will be rid of the dead wood and hangers on in the window . With the £130m transfer budget :o he will have in the bank he will get the strike force , midfield and defenders we need to take us forward . And with the investment from the owners the season after no chance that Anderson/Rice/Diop/Balbuena will leave :shock: .
Last edited by Clayton on Thu May 16, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Whiskyman
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by Whiskyman » Thu May 16, 2019 11:24 am

palerider wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am
Whiskyman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am


For most players I would imagine money is only part of the equation. They also want to be competing for the top honours in the game. A massive salary may well attract the likes of Wilshere but I'd hazard (no pun intended btw) a guess that if we offered Aubameyang or Lacazette a 25% increase they'd laugh in our faces. Our target has to be catching up to Arsenal's level, not the problem it would have been in the past, and convince players we can challenge for the major trophies.

Your point about playing regularly is a good one but the really top players have confidence in their ability. Only my opinion but Rice would be a starter if he was at Chelsea because , although not as good as Kante, no disgrace there btw, he is better than Jorginho for whom they paid top dollar. Hudson-Odoi can't get in their team because he isn't near the quality of Hazard or Willian, to name just two competing for his position. In fact the only 90 minutes I've watched him in was against us and I couldn't see what the fuss was about tbh.

Everton is a good benchmark for us as you say and they tend to shop in the same stores as we do. But they did lose a player who many rated as a star of the future when Ross Barkley joined Chelsea. I guess he was well paid at Goodison and no doubt earns a decent wedge at Chelsea but where has he more chance of winning something he can show off to his kids in years to come ?

Hopefully we can progress next season to a level where players like Rice, Anderson & Diop can see some sort of future for themselves at West Ham. Because if that doesn't happen we, like loads of other clubs at our level, will never be able to attract, or keep, the very best or those who look to have the potential to reach that level.
Breaking into the top 6 just for starters is the key.

Every now and then someone manages it (Leicester did better than that), but 9 times out of 10 it's the usual suspects.

The fact that United are teetering on the edge shouldn't hide the fact that they are still United, and even if a Wolves or an Everton pipped them to 6th, Thursdays in Slovakia wouldn't convince a potential recruit to think about his destination. But 300k a week would.

For us to make that 'next level' that the dwarf promised us requires his immediate resignation and imprisonment, unless 7th was his idea of the next level.

Then a new owner with bottomless pockets could buy the sort of players required. Those happy enough to forgo the Champions League for a weekly wage so big it takes ambition out of the equation.

It's obscene but it's fact.

When I worked in the city I loved my trips abroad on business. But if BP or whoever had approached me and said they'd treble what Shell were paying me but that all I'd do was sit on my arse for 5 days a week I'd have had to seriously think about it.

For about 2 seconds.
I take your point. But I'm guessing your job with BP didn't offer you the chance of winning tangible trophies as a testament to your success with the company. Headhunting in the city is a way of life as you well know and of course we would both have jumped at an offer to treble our salaries if such an offer was placed before us. But however good we both were at our jobs winning trophies, as a tangible memento of having proved yourself a winner, was not something open to us.

I think sportsmen are different. As we know it's not only about ability. To be really successful they have to be dedicated and driven. And of course they also know that if playing for a winning team they have more opportunity of increasing their off field earning potential. And in the real world an offer to increase someone's salary from say £100k pa to £200k is more of a lifestyle changer than raising a WEEKLY wage by the same amount.

Even someone like Reece Oxford can set himself up for life after his first big contract if he manages, or employs someone to manage them, his finances properly. Unless you were the Chairman of BP I doubt if you would have had that luxury. ;)
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by Alfiehammer » Thu May 16, 2019 11:29 am

IronsForever wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:12 am
andyginbrasil wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 am


Unfortunately that will always be the case unless you are competing with the big boys in European Competitions. I'm sure all up and coming footballers have their ambition of playing in CL final, and that can only be achieved at the top clubs. The likes of Anderson, Rice and Diop will all be lured away from little old us to a big club playing regular European football and as long as we get decent money for them to invest in the next Anderson, Rice and Diop we cannot do anything about it.
To be fair mate we are starting to pay decent wages. Arnie and Anderson get the same amount as Arsenals front 2. We are only going to lose a player for me to top European clubs. Them clubs are always loaded with players and as i said before a player can easily fade away and become a part team player because competition is so high.Everton rarely lose players and we are closing in on that benchmark.
Do you stay at a club who is paying you very decent wages, loved by the fans and one of the clubs most influential players. Or do you gamble and join a club where 2 or 3 bad games sees you dropped to the bench? Look at Hudson Adoi. Couldn,t even break into the Chelsea team before he was called up for England . And thats Chelsea.The bigger the club the more pressure you are under to perform week in week out.
The problem zaha has right now....
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mkhammer
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by mkhammer » Thu May 16, 2019 11:39 am

Clayton wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 am
mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:02 am
Make the most of Anderson next year,he'll be gone next one I reckon...Top Euro Sides will be in for
him,can't see us doing enough to keep him...same goes for Issa,another mid table jaunt,they'll be off.
Declan keeps his England place,will hang around for another 2 years reckon...but again,mid table,
he's gone...
Why it's important get into Euro competitions,to hopefully keep these guys,and attract quality
players in if they still want to leave.

Pellers said it...we're still a selling club,wrong attitude in my opinion,we need to be moving away
from that..Players will leave thats fact...but don't pre-empt it,buy saying everyones got a price.

Ref Anderson...I seriously wonder what games people are watching when they say,he's not up to
it..lazy..not interested...
He took a corner Sat...Watford broke away from it....who was the guy sprinted past every other
West Ham player to make a goal saving tackle on the edge of our own 6yard box.....
Not the only time this year....the guy works as hard as anyone...
We will build on what MP has started , and with a bit of luck we will be rid of the dead wood and hangers on in the window . With the £130m transfer budget :o he will have in the bank he will get the strike force , midfield and defenders we need to take us forward . And with the investment from the owners the season after no chance that Anderson/Noble/Diop/Balbuena will leave :shock: .
Prob is we gotta sell before we can buy..cos no way our owners will front up,are their any buyers
for the guys we want to get shot off....I think we have...when fit.. :lol: A squad that really should
be pushing and getting 7th and quite close to that 6th spot already,would like to see how they would
do, nice getting incoming,but we're not desperate IMO.
We can unload yes but have to let them go for silly money..Obiang is worth 10/12 maybe,we'll get
5/6/7...for instance.
Strengthen Squad yes by outing Perez,Chico,Nasri...we know who they all are...but the full strength
side we can put out is quite decent I reckon,we proved it, when set up right,we've run all the top
sides close...so the nucleus is already here maybe...it's a matter of keeping what we have,and
slowly building...not another influx of 5/6/7 starters to start from scratch again..

Less we hit Chumps League...Anderson will prob be off whatever....
Be Gutted cos love him..just the way the game is now...
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Whiskyman
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by Whiskyman » Thu May 16, 2019 2:05 pm

mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:39 am
Clayton wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 am


We will build on what MP has started , and with a bit of luck we will be rid of the dead wood and hangers on in the window . With the £130m transfer budget :o he will have in the bank he will get the strike force , midfield and defenders we need to take us forward . And with the investment from the owners the season after no chance that Anderson/Noble/Diop/Balbuena will leave :shock: .

We can unload yes but have to let them go for silly money..Obiang is worth 10/12 maybe,we'll get
5/6/7...for instance.
Players are only worth what someone is prepared to pay. No more, no less. Ability, age, length of contract remaining are all factors but if someone wants a player badly enough they'll pay for him. We shouldn't be pressured into letting people go for cut prices and I'm hopeful Husillos is clued up enough to know what players elsewhere are changing hands for.

And we need to replace with better. Which includes better value for money imo. Hopefully the days of the Twitchy scattergun approach to transfers are over.
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mkhammer
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by mkhammer » Thu May 16, 2019 5:14 pm

Whiskyman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:05 pm
mkhammer wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:39 am



We can unload yes but have to let them go for silly money..Obiang is worth 10/12 maybe,we'll get
5/6/7...for instance.
Players are only worth what someone is prepared to pay. No more, no less. Ability, age, length of contract remaining are all factors but if someone wants a player badly enough they'll pay for him. We shouldn't be pressured into letting people go for cut prices and I'm hopeful Husillos is clued up enough to know what players elsewhere are changing hands for.

And we need to replace with better. Which includes better value for money imo. Hopefully the days of the Twitchy scattergun approach to transfers are over.
Seems the prob with us at the moment...quite often is with us,we seem to be always in a situation
of being dictated to by the buyers or the sellers...at the moment sides know we have to get rid to get
in...we've got stock nobody really wants,but at the right price...maybe...
Like the Market trader flogging Apples/Bananas or whatever...starts of full price £2 a pound,
end of the day..and he really needs to shift them,make room for tomorrows stock,he's at £1 a pound
and people are buying apples that maybe didn't really want cos they're cheap.
Be interesting see what we get for Obi,Byram,Chico,and others...prob all still be here next year.. :lol:

Our business mantra is ...Buy High...Sell Low... :lol: Always has been....if there's any people
in the footie world that know all about that basic business stuff,it's our owners...
Just goes to show what crap their Football Knowledge of Players is...

But they/we...Nah THEY... ;) made a Million a month on the french bloke...and everyone
says it was a bad deal and we lost out....Spuds had done that ,everyone goes what a brilliant
piece of business that was.

But your right things are swinging round....reckon we could sell all last years incoming, that played
that is, at a profit...first time I've known that happen.
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BCHammer
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Re: Phillipy Anderson

Post by BCHammer » Thu May 16, 2019 5:17 pm

One thing that has changed recently in our favour is you don't need to be in a top side to get international football, playing for West Ham has not hindered Anderson getting in the Brazil squad, in fact it helped him get back in. Likewise Lanzini, Rice, Arnie, Fab etc.

It's a vicious circle really, if the likes of Anderson (as the post is about him) is consistently brilliant, someone will pick him off regardless of where we finish. But for us to have ambition and give that talent European football, chances are we will be raided anyway even if we achieve it. So its only by these players being inconsistent and looking decidedly average on a cold windy day in Cardiff that we get to keep them.

That being said, 7th has to be our aim now. I really do think that 5th & 6th are no longer guaranteed and the likes of Wolves & Leicester will be knocking on that door as Man Utd, Chelsea without Hazard & even Arsenal are no longer the forces they were. If Arsenal lost even one of their front two which could be entirely possible, supposedly they only have 50m to spend, honestly they are no better than we are. Chelsea look bang average without Hazard. And Man Utd without De Gea would be 10th..... it's going to take a while for them to climb back up that cliff they fell off.

So there should be incentive to players like Anderson that with 110% performances every week, we can and should be challenging for the top third of the table with its European awards. We are in the greatest city in the world, not to mention a world class stadium with unrivaled transport links. And a celebrity VC with a hot daughter. Who wouldn't want to move to Stratford?!
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