Well now David.

[Whiskyman]

Whisky, believe it or not our backroom structure has improved a lot over the last two seasons. Now while it might not be as good as Arsenal and the like we are in a much better place than we have been for a long time. For example, look how quickly injured players are getting back to fitness.

People slag off our training facilities but there is little difference between what we have and Chelsea have apart from the number of pitches, and they also have portakabins around the training ground too.

See what we're doing as an evolution, not a revolution. That's the difference between us and Villa and why over the last few seasons we're doing better.

I hope you're right. Our academy used to be one of the best in the country back in the day. However we have produced very few players in recent times who have gone on to have a career at the top level, never mind in our colours. I can only think of Tomkins, Stanislas and Diangana (if I'm being generous) who have represented us at the top level and then gone elsewhere. Add Johnson and I can't think of too many others who have come through over the past 15 years since Mark Noble emerged from the academy. Even Declan Rice came to us after being released by someone else ffs.

We've had the likes of Reece Burke, who is enjoying a decent career in the Championship but no one who has really hit the heights. So the question surely needs asking. We used to do it, why no more ? I'll take your word about the facilities and support infrastructure but either we are no longer able to pick up the best young talent and have to rely on players of lesser quality or something isn't right within the academy itself. It does worry me, and I accept I have absolutely no insight into how good or otherwise the academy coaches are, that there are so many old boys, Carlton Cole, Steve Potts, Kevin Keen, Mark Robson, around that "jobs for the boys" comes to mind.

There has to be a reason wht, for example, Chelsea have Mason Mount, Reece James, Ruben Loftus-Cheek currently gracing their first team. Arsenal have Bukayo Saka, Eddie Nketiah and Emile Smith-Rowe, all home grown. We used to produce players of that quality but, it seems. no more. Surely the question about youth recruitment, and possible shortcomings in the way we go about things, needs to be asked.

But, as I say, I hope your assessment of our structure is an accurate one.

[hd1]

I think the Academy is a slightly different discussion to our general set up.

I agree it has been particularly disappointing that we do not appear to be producing the quality we used, but its been a long time since Cole, Carrick, Lampard etc. but I think you are right, we definitely haven't been getting the pick of local lads but hopefully our relative 'success' over the last 2 seasons will change attitudes.

I think we are seeing a reasonable number coming through now, apart from Johnson, Coventry and Ashby are regular PL squad members and we've had a number of the U21's in and around the Cup teams/sqauds,

[Brookbonds73]

Whisky, believe it or not our backroom structure has improved a lot over the last two seasons. Now while it might not be as good as Arsenal and the like we are in a much better place than we have been for a long time. For example, look how quickly injured players are getting back to fitness.

People slag off our training facilities but there is little difference between what we have and Chelsea have apart from the number of pitches, and they also have portakabins around the training ground too.

See what we're doing as an evolution, not a revolution. That's the difference between us and Villa and why over the last few seasons we're doing better.

I hope you're right. Our academy used to be one of the best in the country back in the day. However we have produced very few players in recent times who have gone on to have a career at the top level, never mind in our colours. I can only think of Tomkins, Stanislas and Diangana (if I'm being generous) who have represented us at the top level and then gone elsewhere. Add Johnson and I can't think of too many others who have come through over the past 15 years since Mark Noble emerged from the academy. Even Declan Rice came to us after being released by someone else ffs.

We've had the likes of Reece Burke, who is enjoying a decent career in the Championship but no one who has really hit the heights. So the question surely needs asking. We used to do it, why no more ? I'll take your word about the facilities and support infrastructure but either we are no longer able to pick up the best young talent and have to rely on players of lesser quality or something isn't right within the academy itself. It does worry me, and I accept I have absolutely no insight into how good or otherwise the academy coaches are, that there are so many old boys, Carlton Cole, Steve Potts, Kevin Keen, Mark Robson, around that "jobs for the boys" comes to mind.

There has to be a reason wht, for example, Chelsea have Mason Mount, Reece James, Ruben Loftus-Cheek currently gracing their first team. Arsenal have Bukayo Saka, Eddie Nketiah and Emile Smith-Rowe, all home grown. We used to produce players of that quality but, it seems. no more. Surely the question about youth recruitment, and possible shortcomings in the way we go about things, needs to be asked.

But, as I say, I hope your assessment of our structure is an accurate one.

The Arsenal academy players will be given game time at some point, if they're deemed good enough, either when European qualification has been assured with games to spare or at the early stages of the league/f.a cup start ups. Ours will be picked but only to warm the bench, as jock shitty knickers is petrified of trying something remotely different. We took a young kid away to Europe a couple of weeks ago, who supposedly is the real deal and the same thing happened again, bench warming at it's finest. Youngsters ain't stupid and neither are their parents, they want to play, not to be given a sightseeing wish you were hear tour of a town ffs.
Word gets around and if they've no hope of any game time whatsoever they'll leave. Look at last season's European night when he shit the bed and played the kids, we narrowly lost 1-0, they didn't disgrace themselves in front of a full house, what an experience for them. But you never saw them again. Sure he had them on the bench to make the numbers up and they probably learned Czech through Alex Kral, but actual game time, forget it.
There's a reason so many of our academy players want out, and it's all down to one person.

[hd1]

The Arsenal academy players will be given game time at some point, if they're deemed good enough, either when European qualification has been assured with games to spare or at the early stages of the league/f.a cup start ups. Ours will be picked but only to warm the bench, as jock shitty knickers is petrified of trying something remotely different. We took a young kid away to Europe a couple of weeks ago, who supposedly is the real deal and the same thing happened again, bench warming at it's finest. Youngsters ain't stupid and neither are their parents, they want to play, not to be given a sightseeing wish you were hear tour of a town ffs.
Word gets around and if they've no hope of any game time whatsoever they'll leave. Look at last season's European night when he shit the bed and played the kids, we narrowly lost 1-0, they didn't disgrace themselves in front of a full house, what an experience for them. But you never saw them again. Sure he had them on the bench to make the numbers up and they probably learned Czech through Alex Kral, but actual game time, forget it.
There's a reason so many of our academy players want out, and it's all down to one person.

How many and which ones of them want out?

I can only think of Ashby who was tempted by Newcastle earlier in the summer.

[andyginbrasil]

The Arsenal academy players will be given game time at some point, if they're deemed good enough, either when European qualification has been assured with games to spare or at the early stages of the league/f.a cup start ups. Ours will be picked but only to warm the bench, as jock shitty knickers is petrified of trying something remotely different. We took a young kid away to Europe a couple of weeks ago, who supposedly is the real deal and the same thing happened again, bench warming at it's finest. Youngsters ain't stupid and neither are their parents, they want to play, not to be given a sightseeing wish you were hear tour of a town ffs.
Word gets around and if they've no hope of any game time whatsoever they'll leave. Look at last season's European night when he shit the bed and played the kids, we narrowly lost 1-0, they didn't disgrace themselves in front of a full house, what an experience for them. But you never saw them again. Sure he had them on the bench to make the numbers up and they probably learned Czech through Alex Kral, but actual game time, forget it.
There's a reason so many of our academy players want out, and it's all down to one person.

How many and which ones of them want out?

I can only think of Ashby who was tempted by Newcastle earlier in the summer.

Sonny Perkins.....that's 2

[Brookbonds73]

How many and which ones of them want out?

I can only think of Ashby who was tempted by Newcastle earlier in the summer.

Sonny Perkins.....that's 2

Aji Alese upped and departed for Sunderland as well, so that's three.
And if as reports suggest, all is not well with others at the academy.

[hd1]

Remind me how Sonny is doing in Leeds PL campaign?

He clearly wasn't and isn't good enough so why would we have tried to keep him (and he was given opportunities to prove himself)?

[andyginbrasil]

Remind me how Sonny is doing in Leeds PL campaign?

He clearly wasn't and isn't good enough so why would we have tried to keep him (and he was given opportunities to prove himself)?

Good enough for the club to cunt him off for not signing a new contract... obviously West Ham have a better option than Perkins and by all accounts is regularly picked for first team action........or not....

[Brookbonds73]

Remind me how Sonny is doing in Leeds PL campaign?

He clearly wasn't and isn't good enough so why would we have tried to keep him (and he was given opportunities to prove himself)?

Played for England at every level from under 15's to under 19's
Record.
Pld 15
Goals 12
Not bad for someone deemed not good enough.

West Ham record 1 appearance in 2 years.

I get what your saying for every 100 or so youngsters trying to make it in the game only a handful will go on to make the grade, it's a tough business. Some will go on to make a living in the lower leagues and have a relatively decent career.
But if you don't give a kid a break, you'll never know.
I think the trouble with Moyes is he sets his standards too high by going back to his Everton days when he brought Wayne Rooney in to the first team. He really didn't have a choice there because it was a well known fact that Rooney was an exceptional talent and other sides were circling. That and the fact of course that they'd have probably lynched him on Merseyside if he had slipped through the net.

[andyginbrasil]

Remind me how Sonny is doing in Leeds PL campaign?
He clearly wasn't and isn't good enough so why would we have tried to keep him (and he was given opportunities to prove himself)?

Played for England at every level from under 15's to under 19's
Record.
Pld 15
Goals 12
Not bad for someone deemed not good enough.

West Ham record 1 appearance in 2 years.

I get what your saying for every 100 or so youngsters trying to make it in the game only a handful will go on to make the grade, it's a tough business. Some will go on to make a living in the lower leagues and have a relatively decent career.
But if you don't give a kid a break, you'll never know.
I think the trouble with Moyes is he sets his standards too high by going back to his Everton days when he brought Wayne Rooney in to the first team. He really didn't have a choice there because it was a well known fact that Rooney was an exceptional talent and other sides were circling. That and the fact of course that they'd have probably lynched him on Merseyside if he had slipped through the net.

He's burning it up in the U21's at Leeds, as for the statement

Remind me how Sonny is doing in Leeds PL campaign?

As an 18 year old he is building his career not in the u 19 but a step up in the U23's one step below the PL.
There are very few 18 year olds playing regularly for any PL side hardly a yardstick to judge a player's quality.
Said it before and stand by it,.... our loss.
Maybe in 2-3 years I might be proved wrong