Whiskyman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:23 pm
This ownership model which is in use in the Bundesliga seems to be getting talked about a lot recently following the failed ESL coup. But if we look at the Bundesliga is it really benefiting the league in Germany ? Bayern Munich are about to win their 9th title on the spin and, as they have done in the past, have raided their nearest challengers, some might say only challengers, and taken their coach and one of their top players, Upemecano, which has obviously weakened them significantly.
It's pretty much the same thing they did after Borussia Dortmund won two titles in a row back in 2011 & 2012 when they signed Mats Hummels one season and then the following year took Robert Lewandowski off their hands. Bayern are pretty much an unstoppable juggernaut in Germany so I'm inclined to ask if this ownership model is all that. Do the members of Dortmund and Leipzig get a vote as to whether they accept bids for their players ? I haven't a scooby tbh but one thing's bloody obvious, it the 50+1 ownership model has done absolutely squat for the competitiveness of their league.
The Bundesliga used to be a decent league. Between 2002 and 2011, when both seasons the title went to Dortmund, there were 5 different teams winning the thing, including Munich. But since Dortmund's last success the Meisterschale has always ended up back in Munich. Maybe the Bundesliga needs ---errr Sheikhing up (sorry) a bit.
No one is claiming 50+1 is about competitiveness. Its about maintaining a connection with the fans, giving a fans a stake in the club and ensuring that football remains grounded. Germany have this in abundance and having been to a few Bundesliga games - the atmosphere is better and the connection between clubs and fans different altogether. We have been sold an expensive product, we are customers not fans now and a trip to watch the football is a "matchday experience". English top flight football has lost sight of its roots.
Bayern win everything because they are a commercial machine. They are the 3rd richest club in the world and the next closest, Dortmund have revenues 300 million euros per year less. That's the competitive disparity not the ownership model but the distribution of income in German football.
The 50+1 doesn't have to be about ownership of equity, just ownership of voting rights. Can be two distinct things using different share classes.
No one is claiming 50+1 is about competitiveness. Its about maintaining a connection with the fans, giving a fans a stake in the club and ensuring that football remains grounded. Germany have this in abundance and having been to a few Bundesliga games - the atmosphere is better and the connection between clubs and fans different altogether. We have been sold an expensive product, we are customers not fans now and a trip to watch the football is a "matchday experience". English top flight football has lost sight of its roots.
Bayern win everything because they are a commercial machine. They are the 3rd richest club in the world and the next closest, Dortmund have revenues 300 million euros per year less. That's the competitive disparity not the ownership model but the distribution of income in German football.
The 50+1 doesn't have to be about ownership of equity, just ownership of voting rights. Can be two distinct things using different share classes.
Oh gawd . You mentioned the Class word
Clubs are same as people apparently mate. Upper, middle and working. We all know our place
Whiskyman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:23 pm
This ownership model which is in use in the Bundesliga seems to be getting talked about a lot recently following the failed ESL coup. But if we look at the Bundesliga is it really benefiting the league in Germany ? Bayern Munich are about to win their 9th title on the spin and, as they have done in the past, have raided their nearest challengers, some might say only challengers, and taken their coach and one of their top players, Upemecano, which has obviously weakened them significantly.
It's pretty much the same thing they did after Borussia Dortmund won two titles in a row back in 2011 & 2012 when they signed Mats Hummels one season and then the following year took Robert Lewandowski off their hands. Bayern are pretty much an unstoppable juggernaut in Germany so I'm inclined to ask if this ownership model is all that. Do the members of Dortmund and Leipzig get a vote as to whether they accept bids for their players ? I haven't a scooby tbh but one thing's bloody obvious, it the 50+1 ownership model has done absolutely squat for the competitiveness of their league.
The Bundesliga used to be a decent league. Between 2002 and 2011, when both seasons the title went to Dortmund, there were 5 different teams winning the thing, including Munich. But since Dortmund's last success the Meisterschale has always ended up back in Munich. Maybe the Bundesliga needs ---errr Sheikhing up (sorry) a bit.
I think you will find that RB Leipzig are the only Bundesliga team that is exempt from that ownership model, in so much as they are 100% owned by Red Bull.
I do however agree with the point you are making. The other point (made by Simon Jordan) is what happens when the club makes a loss and the fans owning shares are asked to put their hands in their pockets to prop up the business!?!
JayK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:19 am
Clubs are same as people apparently mate. Upper, middle and working. We all know our place
So that puts me as a supporter...of Schalke...then....a pillar of strength to be able to hold the other 17 teams up and a goal difference of a mere. -58...
JayK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:19 am
Clubs are same as people apparently mate. Upper, middle and working. We all know our place
So that puts me as a supporter...of Schalke...then....a pillar of strength to be able to hold the other 17 teams up and a goal difference of a mere. -58...
Lucky you. I’m on Southend United’s level, just about to drop out of the league altogether
Whiskyman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:23 pm
This ownership model which is in use in the Bundesliga seems to be getting talked about a lot recently following the failed ESL coup. But if we look at the Bundesliga is it really benefiting the league in Germany ? Bayern Munich are about to win their 9th title on the spin and, as they have done in the past, have raided their nearest challengers, some might say only challengers, and taken their coach and one of their top players, Upemecano, which has obviously weakened them significantly.
It's pretty much the same thing they did after Borussia Dortmund won two titles in a row back in 2011 & 2012 when they signed Mats Hummels one season and then the following year took Robert Lewandowski off their hands. Bayern are pretty much an unstoppable juggernaut in Germany so I'm inclined to ask if this ownership model is all that. Do the members of Dortmund and Leipzig get a vote as to whether they accept bids for their players ? I haven't a scooby tbh but one thing's bloody obvious, it the 50+1 ownership model has done absolutely squat for the competitiveness of their league.
The Bundesliga used to be a decent league. Between 2002 and 2011, when both seasons the title went to Dortmund, there were 5 different teams winning the thing, including Munich. But since Dortmund's last success the Meisterschale has always ended up back in Munich. Maybe the Bundesliga needs ---errr Sheikhing up (sorry) a bit.
No one is claiming 50+1 is about competitiveness. Its about maintaining a connection with the fans, giving a fans a stake in the club and ensuring that football remains grounded. Germany have this in abundance and having been to a few Bundesliga games - the atmosphere is better and the connection between clubs and fans different altogether. We have been sold an expensive product, we are customers not fans now and a trip to watch the football is a "matchday experience". English top flight football has lost sight of its roots.
Bayern win everything because they are a commercial machine. They are the 3rd richest club in the world and the next closest, Dortmund have revenues 300 million euros per year less. That's the competitive disparity not the ownership model but the distribution of income in German football.
The 50+1 doesn't have to be about ownership of equity, just ownership of voting rights. Can be two distinct things using different share classes.
Isn't the better atmosphere at matches, at least according to a lot of people, due to the fact German stadiums allow standing ? I think most people consider atmosphere at matches lost something when all seater stadiums were introduced.
Why Is There Only One Monopolies Commission. Isn't That A Monopoly?
Nothing is ever as simple as single cause and effect.
In my opinion the Germans have…..
- A stake in their club that goes beyond an emotional bond 50+1
- Safe standing
- Beer in their seats/terraces
- An appreciation by the players of the role the fans play
- An appreciation of the local government of the role clubs play in the community (most tickets include free public transport).
only1salty wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 8:11 pm
Nothing is ever as simple as single cause and effect.
In my opinion the Germans have…..
- A stake in their club that goes beyond an emotional bond 50+1
- Safe standing
- Beer in their seats/terraces
- An appreciation by the players of the role the fans play
- An appreciation of the local government of the role clubs play in the community (most tickets include free public transport).
Actually beer probably wins!
The German league has got a hell of a lot right Imo. As I’ve said before I used to live and work in Germany and went to a lot of games. Just a pity that Bayern Munich have got a monopoly these days.
As for your last paragraph ——-bier gewinnt immer.
Why Is There Only One Monopolies Commission. Isn't That A Monopoly?
