JayK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:02 pm
After that goal I saw no shame in the kids at all. They done well. Hopefully some (if not all) will come on leaps and bounds after such an experience and opportunity. Shame we lost (obviously) but Moyes done right by playing them. Our attack was a bit toothless against a packed defence. Onwards and upwards.
Still not seeing the point in Vlasic AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME THOUGH.
My reply to you my friend is in your final sentence.
Just curious though , did you dislike Fornals initially ?
Have to say it’s an interesting question, because if I’m honest it took me a bit to see what his position was, and am now firmly in in the ‘I love Pablo’ team. Im hoping vlasic can change my mind, he just hasn’t done anything to make me think he has pablos vision or skill.
TBF benny was one I was mad keen on (still am) but his passing / crossing are woeful, but his beating a man skills are brilliant. As said if could improve those he could be our saleh/Foden….btw not saying he’s as good, be he has the skills to be.
My reply to you my friend is in your final sentence.
Just curious though , did you dislike Fornals initially ?
Have to say it’s an interesting question, because if I’m honest it took me a bit to see what his position was, and am now firmly in in the ‘I love Pablo’ team. Im hoping vlasic can change my mind, he just hasn’t done anything to make me think he has pablos vision or skill.
TBF benny was one I was mad keen on (still am) but his passing / crossing are woeful, but his beating a man skills are brilliant. As said if could improve those he could be our saleh/Foden….btw not saying he’s as good, be he has the skills to be.
Its is a good question.
Fornals took at least two years to become what he is and he needed to be played consistently before he started to get the confidence he has now.
He wasn't being played regularly to start with though I can't understand why he got so much grief although it does not surprise me. Personally I thought he looked decent to start with though a little off the pace to be fair. Now he is my favourite player but he needed games and time to settle from a personal point of view..
Fornals and Vlasic are very different. Fornals main skill is passing the ball, Vlasic is more a player that likes to turn and run....again, those type of players just need a confidence boost and that will hopefully come after a run of games in the future.
Vlasic has the same issue Fornals had which is that there were enough people in front of him to mean he does not get games consistently. Benrahma has got better than he was initially once he started getting regular starts and in my opinion has a good on pitch relationship with Antonio and Fornals.
Once Vlasic plays regularly and is able to get into a groove then in my opinion, that is the time to judge him and he also needs time to get up to speed with the way we play.
Towie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:40 pm
All it told me was the kids are a long way from being PL standard.
And I also see the boo boys are out for Yarmalenko now.
Sad really.
Yep. Unless we win 5-0 every week there are certain sections of the fans (on here as well) that feel the need to slag players off. It is exacerbated by social media and the Playstation FIFA generation. Social media amplifies it but it does not represent the majority thankfully.
Last night an experienced team that needed to win scored a worldie early (the player that scored is one of the better Croatian internationals) and then they sat very deep. It was difficult to play against but I thought the kids did OK. They do have a long way to go yet, especially Perkins as he struggled a bit last night and was knocked off the ball too easily and the PL will be another step up in terms of pace and physicality so he is definitely not ready.
Many of the kids took the safe option when running with the ball. It is understandable because they were probably a bit nervous in their first senior games. Longelo especially looked like he could do something if he took the handbrake off. That confidence will come with games.
But that is the case now, There is a huge gap between u23 and first team level and only a few will make it.
Was a useful run out but I would rather Noble and Yarmolenko play in a game like this than have to play first team players.
We won the group FFS, people need to calm down.
Agree completely. "Games like this" are precisely the reason we have squads. Can't understand why a small percentage of people are getting their knickers tangled up tbh. Someone has alluded to it already that when there is nothing at stake in a game it must be more difficult to be fully up for it than a game where points, or a place in the next round, are involved. Obviously that doesn't apply to the kids who played, all of whom must have been buzzing. But, as you say, they would have been slightly inhibited by the thought of making a mistake in front of 50 thousand or so, not to mention the millions watching on TV.
I agree with you that Perkins looked the least effective of the kids who played but one thing I like about him was that he didn't hide,. And he is only 17 so has more time to develop before he can be properly assessed. Not surprising for me was that Longelo looked the best of a very decent bunch, no doubt partly due to the fact he is also the eldest of them.
Imo the next stage of development has to be to gradually introduce them into the PL when they will be surrounded by more experience rather than a load of their U23 team mates. I would be inclined not to use any of them against a physical outfit like Burnley but I would be more than happy to see the occasional appearance in other upcoming fixtures. 20 minutes to go and Coufal needs a rest ? Better to bring Ashby on ahead of Fredericks I would say. Cresswell getting tired and leggy ? Longelo over Masuaku makes sense surely.
Why Is There Only One Monopolies Commission. Isn't That A Monopoly?
JayK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:02 pm
After that goal I saw no shame in the kids at all. They done well. Hopefully some (if not all) will come on leaps and bounds after such an experience and opportunity. Shame we lost (obviously) but Moyes done right by playing them. Our attack was a bit toothless against a packed defence. Onwards and upwards.
Still not seeing the point in Vlasic at this moment in time though
I remember when Fornals fist came into the side. A lot of people were writing him off as "crap", "dogshit" , and all the other stuff that players who don't make an instant impact are labelled as. But he's now, at least imo, an integral part of the team , even if he hasn't been used in the position where he first came to prominence, which is controlling the play from the centre of midfield.
Moyes has obviously got a lot of credit in the bank but I think he's not getting the best out of Fornals by using him in part as defensive cover down our left side. Personally I would play Vlasic in that role, and use Fornals in the role which Moyes tends to use Benrahma for,
Why Is There Only One Monopolies Commission. Isn't That A Monopoly?
JayK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:02 pm
After that goal I saw no shame in the kids at all. They done well. Hopefully some (if not all) will come on leaps and bounds after such an experience and opportunity. Shame we lost (obviously) but Moyes done right by playing them. Our attack was a bit toothless against a packed defence. Onwards and upwards.
Still not seeing the point in Vlasic at this moment in time though
I remember when Fornals fist came into the side. A lot of people were writing him off as "crap", "dogshit" , and all the other stuff that players who don't make an instant impact are labelled as. But he's now, at least imo, an integral part of the team , even if he hasn't been used in the position where he first came to prominence, which is controlling the play from the centre of midfield.
Moyes has obviously got a lot of credit in the bank but I think he's not getting the best out of Fornals by using him in part as defensive cover down our left side. Personally I would play Vlasic in that role, and use Fornals in the role which Moyes tends to use Benrahma for,
Vlasic is an interesting one,if he was a loanee he would be going back. however having invested the big bucks,DM needs to find a position to get the lad to flourish.
On first blush when you watch him, you can appreciate he is mobile,tidy and efficient in his work. However to continue to bloom,he needs to demostrate superior qualitities to the guy he borrows the position from.
Yep. Unless we win 5-0 every week there are certain sections of the fans (on here as well) that feel the need to slag players off. It is exacerbated by social media and the Playstation FIFA generation. Social media amplifies it but it does not represent the majority thankfully.
Last night an experienced team that needed to win scored a worldie early (the player that scored is one of the better Croatian internationals) and then they sat very deep. It was difficult to play against but I thought the kids did OK. They do have a long way to go yet, especially Perkins as he struggled a bit last night and was knocked off the ball too easily and the PL will be another step up in terms of pace and physicality so he is definitely not ready.
Many of the kids took the safe option when running with the ball. It is understandable because they were probably a bit nervous in their first senior games. Longelo especially looked like he could do something if he took the handbrake off. That confidence will come with games.
But that is the case now, There is a huge gap between u23 and first team level and only a few will make it.
Was a useful run out but I would rather Noble and Yarmolenko play in a game like this than have to play first team players.
We won the group FFS, people need to calm down.
Agree completely. "Games like this" are precisely the reason we have squads. Can't understand why a small percentage of people are getting their knickers tangled up tbh. Someone has alluded to it already that when there is nothing at stake in a game it must be more difficult to be fully up for it than a game where points, or a place in the next round, are involved. Obviously that doesn't apply to the kids who played, all of whom must have been buzzing. But, as you say, they would have been slightly inhibited by the thought of making a mistake in front of 50 thousand or so, not to mention the millions watching on TV.
I agree with you that Perkins looked the least effective of the kids who played but one thing I like about him was that he didn't hide,. And he is only 17 so has more time to develop before he can be properly assessed. Not surprising for me was that Longelo looked the best of a very decent bunch, no doubt partly due to the fact he is also the eldest of them.
Imo the next stage of development has to be to gradually introduce them into the PL when they will be surrounded by more experience rather than a load of their U23 team mates. I would be inclined not to use any of them against a physical outfit like Burnley but I would be more than happy to see the occasional appearance in other upcoming fixtures. 20 minutes to go and Coufal needs a rest ? Better to bring Ashby on ahead of Fredericks I would say. Cresswell getting tired and leggy ? Longelo over Masuaku makes sense surely.
The definitive view:- The Gonz says if the kids are united they will never be divided...stirling stuff,makes a boys eyes damp
I remember when Fornals fist came into the side. A lot of people were writing him off as "crap", "dogshit" , and all the other stuff that players who don't make an instant impact are labelled as. But he's now, at least imo, an integral part of the team , even if he hasn't been used in the position where he first came to prominence, which is controlling the play from the centre of midfield.
Moyes has obviously got a lot of credit in the bank but I think he's not getting the best out of Fornals by using him in part as defensive cover down our left side. Personally I would play Vlasic in that role, and use Fornals in the role which Moyes tends to use Benrahma for,
Vlasic is an interesting one,if he was a loanee he would be going back. however having invested the big bucks,DM needs to find a position to get the lad to flourish.
On first blush when you watch him, you can appreciate he is mobile,tidy and efficient in his work. However to continue to bloom,he needs to demostrate superior qualitities to the guy he borrows the position from.
Be interesting to watch him do it.
IF he gets more game time, I wouldn’t be against Tim’s idea of playing him up front as a sub to Antonio rather than on the wing. He was switched to the right at half time last night from what I could tell and I don’t feel he’s been effective on either wing.
BlackDiamond wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:18 pm
Vlasic is an interesting one,if he was a loanee he would be going back. however having invested the big bucks,DM needs to find a position to get the lad to flourish.
On first blush when you watch him, you can appreciate he is mobile,tidy and efficient in his work. However to continue to bloom,he needs to demostrate superior qualitities to the guy he borrows the position from.
Be interesting to watch him do it.
IF he gets more game time, I wouldn’t be against Tim’s idea of playing him up front as a sub to Antonio rather than on the wing. He was switched to the right at half time last night from what I could tell and I don’t feel he’s been effective on either wing.
Trouble is Jay , the time to experiment with shuffles like that is when ?
Against Zagreb would have meant no Perkins for example and then there would have been meltdown for not trying the kids .
Leeds in the cup ? Vs Rochdale maybe but a PL club ?
Nah , it all makes for good discussion between the likes of us but ultimately we , even I , have to trust Moyes on stuff like this .
As much as I dislike the man he hasn’t got that much wrong and I’m sure Vlasic will get there . And Kral too.
I think Bug Eyes has to brave and give Rice and or Soucek a rest every now and again even if for only 10-15 mins at the end of games.
IF he gets more game time, I wouldn’t be against Tim’s idea of playing him up front as a sub to Antonio rather than on the wing. He was switched to the right at half time last night from what I could tell and I don’t feel he’s been effective on either wing.
Trouble is Jay , the time to experiment with shuffles like that is when ?
Against Zagreb would have meant no Perkins for example and then there would have been meltdown for not trying the kids .
Leeds in the cup ? Vs Rochdale maybe but a PL club ?
Nah , it all makes for good discussion between the likes of us but ultimately we , even I , have to trust Moyes on stuff like this .
As much as I dislike the man he hasn’t got that much wrong and I’m sure Vlasic will get there . And Kral too.
I think Bug Eyes has to brave and give Rice and or Soucek a rest every now and again even if for only 10-15 mins at the end of games.
You’re not wrong at all Tim mate. Except maybe if he was played up top against Zagreb there may not have been such a meltdown coz the kids had the whole back line covered
Trouble is Jay , the time to experiment with shuffles like that is when ?
Against Zagreb would have meant no Perkins for example and then there would have been meltdown for not trying the kids .
Leeds in the cup ? Vs Rochdale maybe but a PL club ?
Nah , it all makes for good discussion between the likes of us but ultimately we , even I , have to trust Moyes on stuff like this .
As much as I dislike the man he hasn’t got that much wrong and I’m sure Vlasic will get there . And Kral too.
I think Bug Eyes has to brave and give Rice and or Soucek a rest every now and again even if for only 10-15 mins at the end of games.
You’re not wrong at all Tim mate. Except maybe if he was played up top against Zagreb there may not have been such a meltdown coz the kids had the whole back line covered
From what I’ve deduced, not having seen it , the problem was lack of creativity behind Perkins so it wouldn’t have mattered if we had Gerd Muller and Pele up front…
Which brings us back to the disinterest of certain players again…
